Power Lunge

[Hypersmurf]

The Monks and Torches things was funny, but not in the good way.

I don't think it beats "Invisible creatures can't flank", though.

-Hyp.

 

[Snipehunt]

OT -

Invisible creatures can't flank - a classic! *sniff* I almost hope they don't change it for 3.5

And now, back to our program . . .

 

[TheTaxMan]

If you've already decided on how you're going to play it, why bother arguing you less than official house rule?

 

[BSF]

Frank - We have the "official" errata to go on. You have indicated that the author has provided a different interpretation. Any chance you can provide a link or a copy of that interpretation?

General - The wording on Power Lunge is unclear. Even with the errata, it is subject to misinterpretation. Heck, even "official" examples of how to apply the feat would be nice. *sigh* We don't have that. I believe Winternight's original question has been answered in context of the Feat and the errata. While many of the "Rules" discussions break down into possible interpretations to make them more understandable/palatable, shouldn't discussions on "unofficial" interpretations take place in the House Rules forum?

Edited before posting:
I wanted to post some commentary on the other content of this thread. Then, I thought better of it. Try as I might, it probably wouldn't help the situation and might actually make it worse.

But, I almost did post it and didn't feel right pretending like I just ignored it all. Hence, my inane commentary here.

 

[Piratecat]

Please stop bickering, folks. In a worst case scenario, we have a shiny and candy-like "ignore" feature, which I will dangle temptingly out to you both. Lord knows it's a better option than getting your posts deleted or the thread closed.

Thanks, gang. Back to the thread, please.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Thanks, gang. Back to the thread, please.

It shall be as you command!

So, uh... what do you think the damage dealt with a Str 18 Greataxe Power Lunge is, Piratecat?

-Hyp.

 

[Camarath]

Strength Modifier is usually multiplied by 1.5 before applying other modifiers when you are using a two handed weapon.

If you apply multiple multipliers, add each multiplier together at -1.0.

So without the clause "double normal strength modifier" it would be +12 (because strength modifier usually gets multiplied by the THW modifier before applying other modifiers). With the "double normal strength modifier" provision it becomes +10.

Trollman correct me if I am wrong but what you are saying is that this is an additional multiplier that functions in the same manner as other damage multipliers. In other words a x2 damage multiplier is actually equal to (multiplyer-1)x(the quantity being multiplied) thus in this case we would have (Base Str Mod)x((1.5[two-handed multiplier]-1) + (2[power lunge multiplier]-1)).

I believe Hypersmurf’s position is that the feat either gives x2 Str bonus which replaces your usual Str bonus including any modifiers for off-hand, one-handed, or two-handed wielding of the weapon or that the x2 Str bonus is a flat addition to your damage. Those options work out to either (Base Str Mod)x (2[power lunge multiplier]-1) or (Base Str Mod)x(1.5[two-handed multiplier]) + (Base Str Mod)x (2[power lunge multiplier]).

There are three points about this feat that seem unclear to me.
1- What does “normal Strength modifier” mean?
A- Base Str ability modifier
B- The Str bonus you add to your damage rolls
I think the most likely meaning is A but it could also mean B in which case it would include the multiplier for how you wield your weapon.

2- What is included in an “attack’s damage”?
A- Total normal attack damage not including your usual Str based damage
B- Total normal attack damage including your usual Str based damage

3- Why add “regardless of whether you’re using one- or two-handed weapons”?
A- It is intended to imply that this x2 Str mod replaces your normal Str Mod and the off-hand, one-handed, or two-handed wielding multiplier?
B- It is intended to imply that your normal off-hand, one-handed, or two-handed wielding multiplier is not affected by this additional x2 multiplier?

I don’t know if this will be helpful but I thought I would try to clearly lay out the positions on this issue and what I feel are the points of ambiguity in the feat.

 

[FrankTrollman]

There are three points about this feat that seem unclear to me.
1- What does “normal Strength modifier” mean?
A- Base Str ability modifier
B- The Str bonus you add to your damage rolls
I think the most likely meaning is A but it could also mean B in which case it would include the multiplier for how you wield your weapon.

A. Otherwise Powerlunge would be a recursive damage loop.

2- What is included in an “attack’s damage”?
A- Total normal attack damage not including your usual Str based damage
B- Total normal attack damage including your usual Str based damage

B. It's included in the PHB. It's arguable whether enhancement bonuses are part of this total, but strength bonuses certainly are.

3- Why add “regardless of whether you’re using one- or two-handed weapons”?
A- It is intended to imply that this x2 Str mod replaces your normal Str Mod and the off-hand, one-handed, or two-handed wielding multiplier?
B- It is intended to imply that your normal off-hand, one-handed, or two-handed wielding multiplier is not affected by this additional x2 multiplier?

B. Kind of. Really it's:
"C- It is intended to prevent the two-handed multiplier from applying to the powerlunge bonus."
They could have said it "adds a bonus equal to your strength bonus" and that would have done it.

In total, what it actually says is that you add strength bonus x2 to the normal damage (which includes strength bonus or strength bonus x1.5). In total, it comes out to three times or three and a half times damage as written - but the Author has come out and said that wasn't intended.

And no, I don't have archives of message board discussions from 2001.

-Frank

 

[Deset Gled]

1- What does “normal Strength modifier” mean?
A- Base Str ability modifier
B- The Str bonus you add to your damage rolls
I think the most likely meaning is A but it could also mean B in which case it would include the multiplier for how you wield your weapon.

An ability modifier is defined by a table in the SRDs. The term "normal" is not an official D+D term, but is rather a regular english word. Without resorting to a dictionary, it means the case were nothing is special, out of the ordinary, or changed in any way.

A is correct.

2- What is included in an “attack’s damage”?
A- Total normal attack damage not including your usual Str based damage
B- Total normal attack damage including your usual Str based damage

SRD definition:

DAMAGE
When your attack succeeds, you deal damage. The type of weapon used determines the amount of damage you deal.

Thus, damage is a property of the weapon used to make an attack (specifically, the die roll). Strength is an effect that modifies damage.

A is correct.

 

[Piratecat]

It shall be as you command!

So, uh... what do you think the damage dealt with a Str 18 Greataxe Power Lunge is, Piratecat?

Non-existant. I don't allow it in my game.