Power Sources purely cosmetic?

[deathdonut]

Power sources are very useful as a mechanic. Effects that target effects need a context by which to filter their targets. Even if the context is a bit arbitrary.

Arcane for instance is quite the hodgepodge of effects and forms. Though by far the worst offender, it's not the only one. Divine and martial sources both infringe a bit as well.

The existence and even the fuzziness of these sources isn't really a problem, but the shoehorning of classes into power sources most definately is. There is no reason that Paladins couldn't be credited as using both Martial and Divine. Rangers could use both Martial and Primal. I understand the need to define a source for individual powers, but there's no reason to do the same with classes.

 

[malcolm_n]

*SNIP* Double post

 

[malcolm_n]

Martial and Primal. I understand the need to define a source for individual powers, but there's no reason to do the same with classes.

But then what would they put in Unearthed Arcana?

Really though, I thought Divine characters got an extra healing surge per day. Coupled with the +3 healing surges for being a defender gave the D&Dxp Paladin his total 11 (6 base, +1 Con, +3 Defender, +1 Divine). Did I miss something else about the paladin and Cleric for their +1? If this is true, it means they're more than fluff (which is exactly what WotC has said in R&C).

 

[MaelStorm]

Power sources are very useful as a mechanic. Effects that target effects need a context by which to filter their targets. Even if the context is a bit arbitrary.

Arcane for instance is quite the hodgepodge of effects and forms. Though by far the worst offender, it's not the only one. Divine and martial sources both infringe a bit as well.

The existence and even the fuzziness of these sources isn't really a problem, but the shoehorning of classes into power sources most definately is. There is no reason that Paladins couldn't be credited as using both Martial and Divine. Rangers could use both Martial and Primal. I understand the need to define a source for individual powers, but there's no reason to do the same with classes.

Yes, Ranger could use a hybrid Martial/Primal power source, Paladin a Divine/Martial, Rogue a Martial/Shadow, etc. That would make it clearer they are not purely using one power source.

EDIT: The first one would be the principal power source and the second one would be the secondary power source and less strong.

 

[hong]

Power sources are very useful as a mechanic. Effects that target effects need a context by which to filter their targets. Even if the context is a bit arbitrary.

Arcane for instance is quite the hodgepodge of effects and forms. Though by far the worst offender, it's not the only one. Divine and martial sources both infringe a bit as well.

The existence and even the fuzziness of these sources isn't really a problem, but the shoehorning of classes into power sources most definately is. There is no reason that Paladins couldn't be credited as using both Martial and Divine. Rangers could use both Martial and Primal. I understand the need to define a source for individual powers, but there's no reason to do the same with classes.

It would seem that when you said "power sources are ... useful as a mechanic", what you meant to say was "power sources could be useful as a mechanic if they were defined in a way other than how WotC defined them".

 

[SteveC]

This is an interesting question. It seems like there is a mixture of crunch and fluff in the definition of a power source. We're unlikely to see the equivalent of a meteor swarm power for a martial character, after all.

What I find very interesting is taking the powers within a particular source and combining them. This could make for a very class "light" game, where you would pick a starting class that determines how you learn powers, and would then be able to pick from the entire list from your power source.

So a fighter could pick from any martial power, a wizard from any arcane source and so on. It would make for an "almost" classless system. I'll have to see how flexible the classes are when the book comes out, but I think it would make for an interesting game.

--Steve

 

[Imp]

Yeah, power sources smell very very cosmetic to me. I can't currently imagine that if they write up, for example, a bard class, and give them a power source that doesn't suit my campaign, I couldn't just say "screw it, bards are power source Nature" without changing a single other thing.

So I basically stopped caring about that question...

 

[DreamChaser]

Yeah, power sources smell very very cosmetic to me. I can't currently imagine that if they write up, for example, a bard class, and give them a power source that doesn't suit my campaign, I couldn't just say "screw it, bards are power source Nature" without changing a single other thing.

So I basically stopped caring about that question...

I think this hits the nail on the head as to why the power sources are mostly cosmetic. if 4e is about options, then setting up a system where arcane daily powers were always prepared spells would limit needlessly; however, saying that classes that draw upon the arcane power source **generally** gain an at will power that functions as a basic attack (I could see a spellsword with a "spell blade" basic melee attack) creates a guideline for new / custom classes without screwing the exceptions.

(I do think that virtually every divine class we see will have some sort of "divine channeling" ability as well)

DC

 

[Carnivorous_Bean]

Then how about trying to educate me about it? It's 1) an illusion and 2) arcane -- thus from what we know it is an illusion spell. What does it being a utility spell vs encounter or daily have to do with it?

I agree with you, Carthain. The wizard certainly appears to have illusions to me .... and even if there's no illusion descriptor, my brain simply isn't going to accept that something that makes a fake image of you -- that is, an illusion, by every definition of the word and concept -- is not an illusion.

 

[Dronehound]

Maybe Arcane and Divine are "hub" power sources? Able to give access to many minor powers or replicate the effects of minor powers from other power sources like Shadow, Fey, Psionics or Primal?

For example, a Wizard with Arcane power source is able to use a power called animate death as a 9th level power to create 2-12 skeletons. The Necromancer with Shadow power source as access to the power create undead at 9th level creating 2-12 ghouls. The Wizard can charm person as a 2nd level power. The Psion could charm person and mammals as a 1st level power. The Arcane power source could grant a more generalist access to minor and moderate powers of other "magicky" power sources. Other "magicky" power sources grant more powerful effects in their specialisation, like creating more power undead, more realistic illusions, etc.

Because, let's be honest, most parties consists of 4-5 heroes. Generalist power sources could be useful to cover more situations than being stuck with a Necromancer when you would need a Charm person for the situation.