Powergaming as a DM?

[Bloodstone Mage]

All right. I stumbled upon this while making a NPC for my PCs to fight. The NPC is a female escort who discovers that a special cursed mask is carried by one of the players. I was trying to make her deadly, so I decided on a garrote (sp?, I'm half-asleep). I wanted to make it have some special quality, so I made it a locking garrote. Then I decided to make it a wounding locking garrote, which is more dangerous than a regular ol' garrote. While this isn't exactly powergaming, I still felt like it was cheating, thus I felt guilty, so I got rid of the wounding effect. But this question came to mind:
Is it wrong to powergame as a DM?
I always give my NPCs weaknesses, except if I know that a particular powergaming player is headed my way. For me, it's the only way I can stop him. I became more adamant in this belief after my last gaming session, where he, a 4th level rogue, tried to rob a magic store that had four obviously high-level mages. He died, of course, and was mad at me for killing him (and when he gets mad, he gets dramatic). I told him that he shouldn't be running around, doing things just because they're there. I mean, just because a bank can be robbed, does that mean everyone's gonna do it? This player thinks that just because we are in a role-playing environment that there are no laws or consequences. I'm reluctant to actually sit down with this player due to his mood swings and dramatic nature. He was hysterically upset when I didn't let him have a magic item he asked for. He had came up to me before last session started and asked me if his character could have it. He then calculated the price for this magic item, but he did it inaccurately (he calculated about 4,500 gp). When I showed him the real figures (which I calculated to be around 22,500 gp), he got mad at me and started saying over and over again: "By the time I get that much gold, the item will be totally useless to me."
Actually, the more I think about it, it's not my problem with his powergaming, it's just him.

Anyways, I'm done telling my personal experiences. I'm just curious as to what everyone else thinks about this.

Cheers!

[edit: added detail and realization to my situation]

 

[ShadowX]

Hell yeah DMs should powergame. Its not unreasonable to think an NPC is going to make themselves awesome at what they do. Take your garrote example. An experienced assasin is going to know that a wounding garrote is much more effective. Of course its best to keep the flavor of the NPCs and make sure they are the right challenge for you PCs. Most DMs don't like TPKs.

 

[Terwox]

Hmm, it's not wrong to powergame. But if you're going to powergame, you should think about why you are.

For instance, in your example, would you be powergaming just to keep an NPC you like around, even when they really shouldn't be? Doesn't seem to be, she just has an item to do a bit more damage. It's loot too, after all...

And giving NPCs no weaknesses against powergaming PCs seems a bit odd, too. You could always make their weaknesses what the PCs aren't specialized in, sometimes. It would give the other characters a chance to shine, or make the finger of death wizard think for a second. Or something like that. I dunno. I'm very tired and I'm going to stop typing now.

 

[green slime]

Is this the garrotte from Song & Silence? If so, it is a rather unfair item, and something which shouldn't be used in the game. People actually try to use this in a combat situation it is so good. Which is stupid. Do you want to see many heros wandering around attacking people with piano wire, as their weapon of choice in a straight up fight?

It rates along with harpoons from sword and fist as rediculous items with ill-thought out rules that don't belong in the game.

As to powergaming, to a certain extent, yes. But it has to be at the same level as the PCs are, otherwise it is just stupid. If you do it, you are encouraging them to do it. If you don't, and the PCs do, then most of the challenge disappears from the game. So it is a bit of give and take. The players should play well, and create reasonably powerful characters, that are of the same power level (approx), and you create NPCs to challenge them.

But powergaming by utilizing strange, obscure rules, and loop holes in the rules is an antithesis of dungeon mastering, which is to provide stability, balance and equality, and to fill in those holes in the rules with common sense. You DON'T want to introduce your PCs to these horrible rules abuses because you will then have to suffer the consequences. Common sense suffers, and the credibility of the game goes out the window, as players try to squeeze every little advantage out. Which may be fun for some, or for a while, but in a serious campaign, I wouldn't reccomend it.

 

[Durifern]

When I design NPC enemies I won't equip them with mightier weapons then I'd give my players (supposed they have the same ECL). Of course sometimes I bend this rule a little but I always think of the consequences; perhaps they get lucky and kill the NPC, do I want them to obtain his magic items or would I have to cheat them out of it? Players hate that!

I don't know what 'locking' is but wounding is +2. That would make the whole weapon at least +4. Personally I wouldn't give out +4 weapons before level 10-12.

 

[green slime]

BTW, No PC in my game tries to rob a high level mage. They know there are consequences to be suffered. THAT is not power gaming. That is common sense, on all our aparts.

Any lone IDIOT who tries to pull a fast one on a powerful mage will get his just deserts, with the other players laughing at the goon who tries. Guess what? You get to roll up a new character in the kitchen by yourself this evening!

Now if it was the team trying to pull a fast one, then that may be a different matter. But they had better plan well... and they'll have a long term enemy.

 

[fba827]

How often would you consider yourself a powergaming DM? That would be the question in response to the one posed above.

I think of any character resulting from "powergaming" up a combination to be somewhere near the upper end of the population curve. You have the lower end with really odd combinations that don't necessarily compliment one another, a good broad-base middle portion for the average person where some combinations compliment and some don't, and then the upper end where everything is tweaked in unison for perfect combinations.

If you are just "powergaming" for that upper end of characters, then it's all good.

But if every single character (even the NPC begger) can put up a fight (with his kick-all-donkey dagger and dagger related feats) then yeah, it may be going overboard at that point ...

balance.. it is all in the balance.

(just my rambles)

 

[Bloodstone Mage]

BTW, No PC in my game tries to rob a high level mage. They know there are consequences to be suffered. THAT is not power gaming. That is common sense, on all our aparts.

That is true. My bad.
Off the record, though, the player in question is a powergamer. And he does this a lot. He creates some munchkin fighter/thief and then tries to steal magic items in order to boost his stats even more.
I do apologize for including his lack of common sense as an attempt of powergaming. Sorry.

But still, the question remains. The responses above are very excellent answers to it. I'm wondering two things right now.

Not that I'd do something like this, but would it be justified if both players and DM powergamed?
(Personally, I don't think this would justify it. NPCs and monsters are only around for a little time, as they don't get much 'spotlight'. There is a chance that the PCs wouldn't survive long after munchkin'd encounters. Of course, this is my guess/opinion.)

Where did the term "munchkin" come from? If it came from a comic book, then how did that get their name?

Thanks for the comments.

Cheers!

 

[green slime]

In order to create a challenge, DMs need to powergame to the level of the PCs.

Players often like to powergame, in order to gain a perceived advantage, to be better. being good isn't good enough.

Powergamers take this far too far. Bend rules and try to pull fast ones on the DM. They absolutely fail to realise that every attempt MUST be met by the DM in order to provide a challenge. Or do they really want a game where there is no challenge? Every encounter the BBEG keels over as soon as the PC enters the room? The king opens his vaults and gives away all his gold, and his wife AND his daughter?

Powergaming to a certain degree IS fun. Is it more efficient if I take Needle-narf feat now, or do I take Whoople-Derk, and wait? Planning and designing an efficient character is all part of the experience. But if it gets out of hand, and if it is only one player doing it, or the DM can't keep up / keep things under control, then yes it is bad.

There needs to be parity between the player's abilities to power game, and the DM's ability to meet and challenge the PCs.

 

[Marimmar]

Battles need to be challenging and even more importantly interesting for the players. When time permits I try to modify battles in a module so that the players can experience something new. For me as a DM it is not so much power gaming, it is trying out something new combined with efficient character build. Hasted Fighter/Mages in Full-Plate that cast 'stilled' True Strike spells and power attacking with their haste actions might be a good example for interesting combatants that surprised my players but aren't necessarily overkill.

As for your garrotte wielding assassin, I really like the concept but adding two special abilities on a simple piece of string might be a bit over the top unless the campaign is high-level or magic rich. Having someone wielding a garrotte is already quite exotic and facing her alone might be a 'bit' too lethal for a character.

~Marimmar