Pramas on 4E and New Gamers
- Thread starter CaptainChaos
- Start date
BryonD
Hero
That is most certainly true. However, it is completely beside the point of whether or not the changes in complexity are helpful. It could certainly be true that a modern 14 year old is vastly more intrigued by a dragonborn than by a half-orc, while 25 years ago the half-orc was the thing. So that change might be perfect.Wisdom Penalty said:
But getting an initial interest is far from the complete story. It doesn't matter if you are a 14 year old Dragonborn type or a 39 year old half-orc type. Either way, the level of game that you are likely to really dig in to and stick with for a long time is going to need a level of complexity to maintain your interest. Yes, there are exceptions. But I really doubt there are enough exceptions to make the change a net plus.
Reducing the complexity will lose players who want that richness of detail faster than it will gain players for whom the complexity was a barrier. By and large players of any age for whom complexity is a barrier are not going to be enduring P&P RPGers.
People keep saying that we should simply try 4E for an evening and see how fun it is to play and that will change our minds. That position fully misses the point. I'm certain I could sit around the table and kill orcs with friends one evening using the 4E engine and have a blast. I could also have a blast playing Descent, Arkham Horror, Chess, Baseball, or Ultimate Frisbee. That doesn't mean any of these options will provide what I want for an on-going roleplaying game experience.
We should also be careful when we assume what other people are equating.
No. Tetris doesn't involve assuming control a human-like avatar in a virtual environment full of challenges (often accompanied by a unifying --hah!-- narrative). Be reasonable.Imaro said:
Following them badly.
Ever listen to a small child talk Pokemon? Kids can and do master complex systems. Some adults can, too.
There will always be fresh geeks rising up to meet the challenge of the new edition.
They'll always drag their slightly-less-geeky friends along for the ride.
What Pramas et al are missing is that a lot of new players don't bother learning all the rules before playing. They tend to do just fine in the long run, because most fundamental principle of D&D is that the rules are what you make of them anyway.
In a lot of ways, new players have a giant leg up on the rest of us, because they haven't had as much time to forget that.
They'll always drag their slightly-less-geeky friends along for the ride.
What Pramas et al are missing is that a lot of new players don't bother learning all the rules before playing. They tend to do just fine in the long run, because most fundamental principle of D&D is that the rules are what you make of them anyway.
In a lot of ways, new players have a giant leg up on the rest of us, because they haven't had as much time to forget that.
BryonD
Hero
Hong said:
Come on pawsplay.... Everyone knows that Panda Bears are Bears. It says so right there in the name.pawsplay said:
Honestly, finding 4E good enough and seeing no difference between RPGs and CRPGs seems quite a nice fit to me. If your P&P RPGs don't offer anything more than a CRPG, then 4E won't offer YOU anything less than those other P&P games either.
It seems a clear distinction is defined here.
Imaro
Legend
hong said:
Just wanted to focus on this right here...ding, ding, ding we have a winner. You are in fact claiming that play must be modified and changed in order to accommodate a new person. Thus how does D&D 4e make D&D more accessible to new players. I didn't have to do this with the red box basic set...not even with 3e if they played a fighter or Barbarian. Yet, you're now saying it is on the DM, who may also be a beginner to make D&D newbie friendly. Again assuming the viewpoint someone familiar with the game will introduce people.
