Pramas on 4E and New Gamers

[Cadfan]

Thus how does D&D 4e make D&D more accessible to new players.

If it does absolutely nothing else at all, it makes level 1 not blow.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Yes, the truth does hurt. CRPGs are not traditional RPGs in a different medium.

I don't think this is true, nor do I think you have a good argument to back up this claim.

Hong, at least, keeps his bon mots simple, not simply simple statements.

 

[xechnao]

Reducing the complexity will lose players who want that richness of detail faster than it will gain players for whom the complexity was a barrier. By and large players of any age for whom complexity is a barrier are not going to be enduring P&P RPGers.

There is a certain engineering level where you can make a simple (not simplistic) system that can provide as much depth as a more complicated one. It all boils down to create the most appropriate system, not the most complicated one. I believe D&D or any other rpg that wants to provide a long term nerd experience is not there yet.

 

[WayneLigon]

Drakar och Demoner is a BRP clone, btw. And also the basis for my thoughts on first mover advantages determining the dominant rpg player in different markets.

Explain this better please.

BRP is the Basic Roleplaying System, the core system for the old RuneQuest game, Call of Cthulhu, etc. BRP has either been re-released or is about to be re-released in a big hardback format.

I've often thought that one of the chief reasons D&D has such a dominant force is that is was first RPG, and it was the first to gain a significant mainstream bookstore/toy store presence.

 

[Imaro]

Yes, 4E assumes you have a human DM who can adjust the parameters of the campaign to suit. I fail to see how this is a bad thing. Perhaps you really do want to play WoW.

Uhm, where in the DMG is this addressed or even mentioned?

If the DM is a newbie, then they will be playing the monsters dumb.

Yeah because now were assuming DM's don't have basic reading comprehension skills when the tactics, especially in modules, are spelled out for them.

 

[hong]

Uhm, where in the DMG is this addressed or even mentioned?

You... really need the DMG to tell you, an experienced DM, to tailor the game for your group?

Yeah because now were assuming DM's don't have basic reading comprehension skills when the tactics, especially in modules, are spelled out for them.

Applying said tactics is a function of system mastery. A newbie DM, not having yet achieved system mastery, is likely to be playing the monsters dumb.

 

[Lacyon]

Yeah because now were assuming DM's don't have basic reading comprehension skills when the tactics, especially in modules, are spelled out for them.

IME, Those tactics sections never survive contact with PCs.

Especially when they're new players.

 

[xechnao]

BRP is the Basic Roleplaying System, the core system for the old RuneQuest game, Call of Cthulhu, etc. BRP has either been re-released or is about to be re-released in a big hardback format.

I've often thought that one of the chief reasons D&D has such a dominant force is that is was first RPG, and it was the first to gain a significant mainstream bookstore/toy store presence.

Yes I have thought this too myself. What I did not understand was why he mentioned BRP in respect.

 

[Imaro]

If it does absolutely nothing else at all, it makes level 1 not blow.

Yeah, and if you aren't tactically adept and[B/] attained a certain level of rules mastery it can still blow. Dead is dead whether it took 10 points of damage or 30 to get you there. In fact a long drawn out fight where you know you are loosing can be more frustrating.

 

[hong]

Yeah, and if you aren't tactically adept and[B/] attained a certain level of rules mastery it can still blow.

It is not a mark against the system that it requires some time to get the hang of it. Every game worth the label requires some getting used to. If your players absolutely must trounce the opposition from the get-go, they... hm, can't play WoW. Newbies die there too. Maybe Devil May Cry, with newbie mode turned on where it does all the combos for you.

Dead is dead whether it took 10 points of damage or 30 to get you there. In fact a long drawn out fight where you know you are loosing can be more frustrating.

So run away. You're even allowed to do this in WoW.