Pramas on 4E and New Gamers

[Imaro]

You... really need the DMG to tell you, an experienced DM, to tailor the game for your group?



Applying said tactics is a function of system mastery. A newbie DM, not having yet achieved system mastery, is likely to be playing the monsters dumb.

So, again we are talking experienced player teaching, not new players on their own. Which one is it, really?

No, it's not a function of system mastery. It's like having blueprints and it sets you up in a higher position than the new players as far as tactics, not to mention you are the only one running the monsters so you don't have to coordinate with anyone else.

 

[pawsplay]

It is not a mark against the system that it requires some time to get the hang of it.

I agree with hong. This kind of game is not merely aimless amusement, it is intended to be challenging.

 

[hong]

So, again we are talking experienced player teaching, not new players on their own. Which one is it, really?

YOU are an experienced player. YOU do not need the DMG to tell you to play the monsters dumb, when you have new players.

Some OTHER putative newbie DM might not necessarily know to play the monsters dumb. That's all right. It's a process of learning for them as much as it is for the players; and being a newbie DM, they will likely play the monsters dumb anyway.

Is that clear enough?

No, it's not a function of system mastery.

Of course it is. System mastery means more than just knowing how to build munchkin PCs, it's also how to use your abilities to best effect.

It's like having blueprints and it sets you up in a higher position than the new players as far as tactics,

And if you have no system mastery, you may not know how to follow those blueprints.

not to mention you are the only one running the monsters so you don't have to coordinate with anyone else.

It also means you have 5 brains working against you.

 

[AllisterH]

Heh...How about a post from a new player?

New player picking up 4e

So, now where does this admittedly small sample fit into the discussion?

 

[xechnao]

Heh...How about a post from a new player?

New player picking up 4e

So, now where does this admittedly small sample fit into the discussion?

I have read it. That guy is not even half believable. At least to me. And not because I disagree with his tastes. That's not an issue and perhaps not even true.

 

[Imaro]

I agree with hong. This kind of game is not merely aimless amusement, it is intended to be challenging.

Never said it wasn't. My contention is the steepness of the learning curve in the beginning. Personally I think the tactical and rules mastery learning curve for D&D should be similar to a bell curve, minimal at level 1, peaking at level 15 and introducing very little as it progresses to 30. If more experienced players want more complexity they can start at a higher level while there is little to no barrier for those new people who want to jump on board without having to find an experienced player to teach them. It would be similar, though not exactly the same as the colored D&D boxed sets from years ago.

 

[AllisterH]

I have read it. That guy is not even half believable. At least to me. And not because I disagree with his tastes. That's not an issue and perhaps not even true.

*Blinks*

Woah..that's one aspect that I've never seen...

What makes him "not believable"?

 

[hong]

Never said it wasn't. My contention is the steepness of the learning curve in the beginning.

The steepness is fine. If anything, people are complaining that it's too shallow.

It would be similar, though not exactly the same as the colored D&D boxed sets from years ago.

Wherefrom came this belief that casual gamers want a rules-lite game, I wonder. Because all the most popular videogames out there have more crunchiness than you could fit into 800 pages.

 

[Grazzt]

Because all the most popular videogames out there have more crunchiness than you could fit into 800 pages.

Which is where the differences lie. Computers can do way more work than the players or DM has to do, especially crunching numbers and whatnot. Don't need 800 pages to explain that. Just jump right into the CRPG and go.

 

[med stud]

The tactical complexity of the MM- monsters isn't exactly Sun Tzu... They are very basic ways of how to utilize your assets in an efficient way. Against tactically inclined players with a good grasp on the rules, those tactics will get ripped to shreds.

It's nice that they are there, I suppose, since many RPGers don't come from a background of tactical games. But it's not like you will steamroll any opposition using the MM tactics unless the players are being very untactical.