Lopke_Quasath said:
Alright, perhaps way too much, but I guess it's time to break it down. The wealth cost, as perhaps poorly explained by me, is throughout the Traveller's PrC path and beyond. Every time they receive/find/gain wealth, 20% must be given away (like the 2nd Ed Paladin, well, his was 10%). That's a hefty cost in a standard campaign.
I don't doubt that. I just have three real objections to it:
1> In-game/roleplaying restrictions should never be used to balance a PrC, in general, and this comes pretty close to that. Why? Because they often end up being more of a limitation on the DM than on the player; the DM has to make sure the limit doesn't neuter the player entirely, and this often goes too far.
2> What's 20% of a suit of magic armor? If the cleric only gets a single powerful item as his share, does he have to tithe 20% of its value (which he might not have), or does he get away with it?
3> Most of the groups I've been in didn't do a very rigid loot distribution. We didn't total up cash values and then split evenly; most items were given by consensus to whoever would get the most use out of it, with the more generic items used to round it all out. Forcing one character to sacrifice a small fraction of his loot simply doesn't work well in this situation; for this to work it pretty much has to be all or nothing.
The Survival skill requirement is at 4 ranks because if it's cross-class a cleric can enter this PrC at 9th level, if they have the Travel domain, entry is at 6th level.
Or anyone who's taken a single level of a class that has Survival as a class skill (Ranger, Barbarian, Druid). Even bumping this up to 5 ranks would make a big difference in that case.
Okay, 1 feat isn't enough. Can you think of another Feat as a requirement?
Run, maybe? You could do Track, but that'd make this too easy for a 1-level Ranger. There's also the Self-Sufficient feat (+2 to Heal and Survival checks), which fits well since you already require both of those skills.
If you're going to bring variants into this discussion, we'll be here all day. Besides, the easiest way for a core Ranger to get fast movement would be to take one level of Barbarian. I've done it, it's great.
Yes, some benefits may seem huge, but I thought I worked it out so no one can really get them all, unless they go a very specific route.
What "specific route"? The only part of this that has any exclusivity is the domain bit at the end. Everyone who takes the class would get the fast movement, the positive energy bursts, a third domain, etc. That's how most PrCs work, of course.
My basic argument to this whole thing was that a Cleric sacrifices almost nothing to enter this class, and since it gives full spellcasting and turning progression, it's a pure gain in power. By definition then, the class isn't balanced.
So, did you read the bonus domain like they could choose any domain at all?
No, I understood what you meant. But just note that pretty much all the PrCs I've seen that grant extra domains grant a SPECIFIC one related to the class. Granted, you're effectively limiting to two by only allowing clerics of a single deity to enter, so it's not a huge imbalance.
The Positive Energy Burst is standard at 8th level for the 2 PrCs I found who had it.
IIRC, both of those classes sacrifice their spellcasting progression entirely, and the PEB is probably the single best class ability they get. Ever seen what a Hunter of the Dead can do to a pack of undead with one of these? If not, go read Piratecat's Story Hour.
For a human, low-light is good, yes. For anyone with low-light already, or darkvision, it's moot. 9th level to receive darkvision (minimum 14th character level) is too much?
Humans, Halflings, Dwarves, and Half-Orcs all lack low-light vision (meaning only 3 out of 7 PHB races have it, and if you think darkvision can entirely substitute for low-light, you've never played with a ratbastard DM). And your darkvision explicitly states that races already having it gain +30'.
Also, while the text says Darkvision at 9th, the table says 6th level.
The fast movement I thought added some flavor, moving a little faster on the road, and it's spread far enough apart on the levels that no one can dip into this PrC for oodles of benefits.
I don't disagree. It's probably the most "flavor"ful of your abilities, and if anything, I'd keep that and dump some of the other bits.
Bottom line: I don't think it's possible to balance this, AT ALL, unless you sacrifice at least two levels of spellcasting (probably 3), or in some other way reduce the effectiveness of the spellcasting. Because right now your entrance requirements are relatively light, and there's no sort of ongoing penalty to balance the perks you're giving.
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