[PrC Question] 'Deep Woods Sniper'; the good the bad or just the ugly?

[Numion]

It's not all that great. My Living Greyhawk PC is going Arcane Archer instead of Deepwoods Sniper.

Now that arrows and bows don't stack, you're going to have to work for the extra munch. Thats was the main advantage of Arcane Archer.

IMO the best archery class is the Order of the Bow Initiate. Not getting AoOed is a big bonus, and most of the abilities just scream cheese. Sprinkle that class with 3 levels of Peerless Archer and you're set to go

OotBI Might've lost something though, since now greater weapon spec is available to core classes.

 

[ShadowX]

ok . . . that definately shows quite a level of specialization, at the expense of other stuff. AA is probably more well rounded in some respects, and OoBI is fine, with some hokey stuff (off the wall shot? if the arrow head is strong enough to pierce metal armor why wouldn't it just stick into the wall?).

Peerless Archer? Where is this from? Epic level handbook? now THAT"S one of my books I don't even know where i've kept, it seems like a fine book, but haven't looked too into it, so if the PA is in there, i haven't seen it.

I'm currently making a few prestige classes, and the archer ones seem to be completely out of whack in some respects to power level gained. Specifically hardly any archer PrC's are there which would help a ranger, ie. increase spell casting level.

Anyway, hopefully when i get more time for D&D (in like a week or so) i'll be able to finish those (and my two entries for the great character whated that i offered to do for Ashrem Bayle like 2 weeks ago)

The archer PrC's are created after their namesake, archers. They specialize, which most PrC's do, in ranged weapons at the cost of things like ranger spells. In fact fighters are probably still the best archers even with the ranger upgrade. My favorite archer build is:

Rog 3/Ftr 4/DS 2/PA 3/OotBI 8

You can replace the rogue levels with a ranger level and take more OotBI levels. The other alternative for archers is a cleric archer, but IMO they aren't quite as good as a fully specialized archer. Of course they do get spells.

To answer your question directly, I find Arcane Archer rather weak. The enhancement bonus can be supplied by greater magic weapon and the special abilities are rather mediocore. But I also find that Deepwood Sniper is not worth taking more than 2 levels as the sniping benefits are rather useless, at least in most D&D games were encounters are not fought over large areas and with ample time to place a shot.

 

[hong]

In the long run, the deepwood sniper probably isn't as uber as some other PrCs, at least in purely mechanical terms. However, it's a GREAT class for grabbing the limelight, which, when you come down to it, is what "balance" is really all about. All it takes is one x4 or x5 crit on a boss monster for 100+ points of damage, and everyone else around the table will be goggling. An event like this stands out in the mind much more than firing off 5 or 6 shots for 20-25 points each.

 

[Numion]

In the long run, the deepwood sniper probably isn't as uber as some other PrCs, at least in purely mechanical terms. However, it's a GREAT class for grabbing the limelight, which, when you come down to it, is what "balance" is really all about. All it takes is one x4 or x5 crit on a boss monster for 100+ points of damage, and everyone else around the table will be goggling. An event like this stands out in the mind much more than firing off 5 or 6 shots for 20-25 points each.

I wouldn't consider character that shines once a session and is lackluster rest of the session balanced.

For me balance isn't about pulling a stunt that people remember once a session. It's about having a useful and playable character majority of the time. With any luck there will be memorable actions even though my PrC wasn't geared for those.

 

[hong]

I wouldn't consider character that shines once a session and is lackluster rest of the session balanced.

For me balance isn't about pulling a stunt that people remember once a session. It's about having a useful and playable character majority of the time. With any luck there will be memorable actions even though my PrC wasn't geared for those.

So are you saying that the deepwood sniper got the shaft?

Anyway, it's not like the DWS is being a fifth wheel all the time that he doesn't get an uber-crit. He's still there, plugging away with 4 attacks per round, more with Rapid Shot and haste. This is quite sufficient to make a good showing for himself. However, it's also stuff that any archer could do -- it's not something inherent to the prestige class.

 

[hong]

Really ? I thought it was a 19-20/x4 top. At what level do you gain x5 criticals ?

x4 crit at 2nd level, x5 crit at 7th.

 

[Felix]

Put it this way:

AA, OotBI, and Peerless Archer are great PC archery classes.

Deepwood Sniper is brilliant for NPCs where they can really take advantage of their range ability. And any traveling group (mercs, adventuring party, caravan) beset from a group of Deepwood Snipers is in for some real trouble; they won't be able to engage the snipers!

I think we might be forgetting that PrCs are in the DMG, and not the PHB, for a reason.

 

[Rackhir]

I've found that most people who complain about the DWS being "broken" have never actually seen one used or tried it out. It is really best as not your main PrC, but a secondary to fill out some of the levels between 16th or so and 20th. The only really good class abilities you get are the Crit enhancements. The range enhancements are nice, but lets face it PCs almost never get to see their enemies at ranges which would permit one to actually use that additional range.

Even with having a 18-20 crit range (assuming Imp Crit), criticals still don't come up that often in my experience. Maybe once or twice a session, but nothing that is really game changing.

At one point I ran essentially two versions of the same character in two different campaigns. One was a F6/Bnd1/OoBI6, the other was R1/F4/DWS4/OoBI4 and I didn't notice any significant difference in power.