Presenting . . . THE SCOUT. No, it's not an alt.ranger. (Maybe it's his brother.)

[Forrester]

Presenting THE SCOUT.

Yeah, I know what you're thinking. "Call it what you want - the Scout, the Bounty-Hunter, the Pseudo-Neo-Fighter-Thief, this is just another damn alt.ranger. Enough, already!!!"

Well, you're only half-right. The class presented below is somewhat rangery, but it's almost more rogue than ranger. There’s not even free Tracking, or two-weapon fighting! (At least, not necessarily.) And its impetus is different: my main interest in coming up with the class was not to replace the PC Ranger class, but rather to create a plausible, realistic, and useful NPC class – one that fills an important gap at low levels.

For instance . . .

What class is the goblin that knows how to work the Heavy Ballista, as he guards against incoming adventurers? Not a fighter - this guy has to know how to spot and listen. Not a ranger - these amateur guards hardly will have the training to track, have two-weapon fighting, ambidexterity, and so on. I suppose he could be a rogue, but I can't see him tumbling all over the place, or learning how to use magical devices, or even necessarily picking locks. And if he’s got 8 skill points/level, he probably will be dumping points into some of those. And Evasion? Uncanny dodge? I don't see slightly experienced guards of this nature learning those abilities.

What class is the elf that patrols the forest, searching for goblin intruders? Not a fighter - again, where's the spot and listen? Not a ranger - two weapon fighting? Doubtful. Tracking? Kind of unbalancing to have a horde of 1st level elves, all with tracking, looking for the PCs. (Assuming you're running a campaign where elves are the bad guys, of course.) And while some alt.rangers allow replacement of the two-weapon fighting virtual feats with two archery feats, this top-loads the class even MORE. It's arguable that two-weapon fighting is subpar - but starting with point-blank shot and rapid shot (or precise shot, or whatever) is *never* a bad thing!

What class is the woodsman? What class is the bounty-hunter? Huh? Huh??!!

Easy answer: They're fighter/rogues. But that's just so choppy! 8 skill points, then 2 skill points, then 8 skill points. And none of these guys need to learn to use heavy armor. None of them are necessarily so naturally dexterous that they can eventually dodge Fireballs. And if their favored class isn't rogue or fighter, they will be quite restricted in how they can progress in both classes.

Better answer: They are, for the lack of a better name, Scouts.
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Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d8.

Good Saves: Fort & Reflex

BAB: As ROGUE (very important difference – most alt.rangers progress as fighters).

Class Skills: Very rangery, but a touch of rogue (to open up options):

Animal Empathy (Cha, exclusive), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intuit Direction (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Local)(Int), Knowledge (Nature)(Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Locks (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex), and Wilderness Lore (Wis).

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int. modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int. modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Scouts are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, and shields.

Bonus Feats: As the Fighter list, minus the Power Attack chain (no Cleave, Sunder, etc.)


Feat/Special Ability Progression:

1st level: Alertness, Bonus Feat
2nd level: Bonus Feat
3rd level: Sneak Attack (d6)
4th level: Uncanny Dodge (no dex loss when flat-footed)
5th level: Bonus Feat
6th level: Sneak Attack (2d6)
7th level: *Heightened Alertness* (Additional +2 to Spot, Listen)
8th level: Bonus Feat
9th level: Sneak Attack (3d6)
10th level: Uncanny Dodge (can’t be flanked)
11th level: Bonus Feat
12th level: Sneak Attack (4d6)
13th level: *Heightened Alertness* (Additional +2 to Spot, Listen)
14th level: Bonus Feat
15th level: Sneak Attack (5d6)
16th level:
17th level: Bonus Feat
18th level: Sneak Attack (6d6)
19th level: *Heightened Alertness* (Additional +2 to Spot, Listen)
20th level: Bonus Feat



What do you think?

Compare a 5th level rogue to a 5th level scout: The rogue has twice as many skill points, class skills like Tumble and Use Magical Device, an extra 2d6 of sneak-attack damage, and Evasion. The Scout has Alertness, three bonus feats, and 6 extra hit points.

Compare a 10th level rogue to a 10th level scout: The rogue has an extra 2d6 of sneak-attack damage, Evasion, more skill points, better skills, and a sneaky rogue special feat. The Scout has Alertness, four bonus feats, 11 extra hit points, and +2 to Spot/Listen. The “Scout” could easily go the archer/sniper path; the rogue will have had a tougher time. But I don’t think it’s unbalanced – the rogue is managing to use a Wand of Fireballs . . . and, coincidentally, is often taking no damage when caught within a Fireball. And he’s Tumbling all over the damn place.

Compare a 6th level rogue/6th level fighter (Rofi) to a 12th level scout:

BAB: Rofi’s is +10, Scout is +9 (Next level, Rofi goes to +11, and an extra attack, while Scout stays at +9)
Sneak-attack: Rofi is 3d6, Scout is 4d6
Skills: Just about a wash (but Scout has +2 to Spot and Listen)
Hit points: about the same
Feats: 4 feats for Rofi, 5 feats +Alertness for Scout. Rofi can take Weapon Specialization
Rofi has all armor proficiencies.
Rofi has Evasion

Pretty damn close, if you ask me. Evasion is just a huge bennie.

Other benefits of the Scout class:

1) Great flexibility
2) No “sampling” problem (taking just one level) because it’s not too top-loaded AND the first level BAB bonus is +0. That’s a huge detriment.
3) No confusing “different paths” or sets of (admittedly sometimes cool) new abilities. Easily fits in with current 3E rules.
4) I think this class successfully generates a “feel” of its own.

For balance purposes, it should probably also be compared to other classes with a medium-BAB, like Psychic Warriors and Clerics. I think that Scouts are either equal to the two, or slightly less powerful.

If I had to make a cut, to make the Scout less powerful, I would probably get rid of the second Uncanny Dodge (unflankable) ability. Or switch the time the first Uncanny Dodge is earned with the first Heightened Alertness.

So what do you think?

 

[Dr. Zoom]

It's too good. You wanted a viable NPC class, so your comparisons should be to the warrior and expert, not to fighters, rangers, and rogues. If you do this, you will see that your NPC class is too powerful.

An NPC class should not have bonus feats or the special abilities of rogues or rangers. Also, no NPC class has two good saves. The skill list seems inordinately large, too, especially for your concept.

I think a scout type or woodsman is perfectly doable with the expert NPC class. You could even multiclass with the warrior NPC class or the Fighter if you wanted more fighting power.

 

[drowdude]

Looks like someone picked up Deadlands D20

 

[drowdude]

I would suggest checking out the Thug NPC class from FFG's Traps & Treachery. It has the basic qualities you are looking for I think.

 

[Forrester]

1) I wanted a viable NPC class, but I decided to give making it a PC class a go. Obviously this is overpowered for an NPC class, but hell, I don't like the NPC classes anyway. I think the adept is silly (humanoids are just naturally savages, you know, even though their intelligence and wisdom is comparable to that of humans -- yeah, right) and ditto the warrior (like it'd be unbalancing to have a bunch of 1st level troops with both Alertness AND Weapon Focus, or Point-blank shot).

I can power this guy down and make him an NPC class, easy. That's not my goal.

2) Whassa Deadlands d20? Did they do something similar?

3) I don't think of scouts as "Thugs". Maybe the class is just poorly named, but I don't see goblin guards as thugs, nor woodsmen, nor castle sentries or lightly armored advance troops.

 

[drowdude]

2) Whassa Deadlands d20? Did they do something similar?

Well....*YEAH* they did... and that Scout looks almost identical to what your scout... with the exception that your version is a good deal more powerful. Anyone who has seen the class in the Deadlands d20 book will know exactly what I am talking about here.

Looks like you just reworked the class skill list a bit; traded out the bonus language and bonus skill focus and track feats for bonus feats; renamed the one ability *Heightened Alertness*; and then redistributed the SA ability a bit so that it caps at +6d6 rather than +5d6.

3) I don't think of scouts as "Thugs". Maybe the class is just poorly named, but I don't see goblin guards as thugs, nor woodsmen, nor castle sentries or lightly armored advance troops.

Take the class rename it to Scout or whatever you want. The basics of the class generally fit what you were describing. The name of the class is irrelevent.

 

[Jack Haggerty]

You could take a look at the SW:RPG core class "Scout".

You get a free feat at first level from a small list... Stuff like Skill Focus (Survival), Track, Alertness, Some extra weapon proficiencies...

The classes main class ability is Skill Mastery every few levels. You pick a number of skill equal to your Int bonus. On those skills, you can take 10 at any time, even during stressful situations.

Another class ability used is Trailblazing... A successful survival check allows you to shave off travel time. The higher the roll, the more people you can lead while trailblazing.

The Big Game Hunter PrC from the Alien Anthology wouldn't be a bad place to look either... Gets bonuses to tracking, survival, MS, hide, spot and listen in certain chosen terrains or climates.

 

[Forrester]

Drowdude -- re the Deadlands thing, that *is* scary.

Especially because I was considering putting in bonus Skill Focus feats in place of some of the abilities. Spoooooky.


What is Deadlands, anyway? I take it it's a new d20 system? Is it the Old West, or something else?


Also a possibility is to make the sneak attack bonuses "Surprise attack" bonuses -- I think you did this (or was it someone else) in an alt.ranger. I had the same idea; basically, a surprise attack is a sneak attack taken while someone is flat-footed, but not while they are being flanked. Not sure I want to make things more complicated, though -- I don't like creating abilities that *almost* mimic another ability, but not quite.

Do you think that my Scout is overpowered? I can see taking out some bonus feats (and maybe the latter Uncanny Dodge) and putting in some abilities that it makes sense only Scouts should get. An Endurance-related feat (so they can stay up longer/work longer, whether it's as sentries or as patrols) might be a possibility.

As of now, though, I'm unconvinced that it's more powerful than a fighter/rogue of equal level, or better than a rogue, or better than a fighter in sheer power level.

And I think it fits its own niche . . .

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Well, let's evaluate it as a PC class then. If you run it through the CCE it comes to 270 character points. Not so high to make it absurd, but more than the 240 to 250 the creator suggests to make it balanced with the other core classes.

The main criticism I have is the same I have with Monte Cook's variant ranger. It is too feat heavy. A fighter is supposed to be the king of the feats, and yet your Scout almost matches them in bonus feats (a differance of 3). Add to that the sneak attack, uncanny dodge, a huge skill list and more skill points and you have a much better class than the fighter. You had to drop the BAB or everyone would be a Scout. This does not seem balanced with the other core classes to me.

I will second Jack Haggerty's suggestion of basing your class on the d20 Star Wars Scout class. The main focus is on skills, which seems to be the proper focus. If you need this class in your game, the SW Scout is your model.

 

[Forrester]

But Star Wars is stinky!

Maybe I'll try to find it somewhere.

What is this CCE you speak of, anyway? It sounds very interesting; a certain Balsamic Dragon sent me her point-system for balancing classes, and I'm playing with it right now. Sounds like this might be fleshed out more.

I've already decided I need to make some edits. I'm going to chop down the skill list, but allow each Scout to pick one or two skills off of it to be class skills. I'm going to also change the weapon proficiencies to that similar to a bard or rogue. Those hits might bring it down to core-classdom.

If I can come up with some feat-like abilities that it makes sense for all scouts to get, I'll use those and replace some of the bonus feats.

The next items for the chopping block would be the bonus 1st level feat and the 2nd Uncanny Dodge ability. If I get rid of those as well, I'm pretty confident that the class wouldn't be overpowered. Might be a tad underpowered, in fact.

And he's definitely not better than the fighter. The lack of armor, mediocre BAB, and (now) lack of most martial weapon proficiencies make sure of that, feats and slow sneak-attack progression notwithstanding.