Prestigous Woes...

[Remathilis]

Ember the Monk, Hallid the Hexblade, Xerxes the Soulblade, and Morthos the Warlock are all sitting at the Prestigous Paladin bar and Inn. Each is drinking a cup of some ale, and each has a dour look on thier face. Ember is the first to speak.

"Any luck with a prestige class?" She asked her companions.

"No." each replied in turn, their faces showing disgust.

"Its not fair," Ember commented. "Monk abilities like combat and AC depend on thier class level. If not for them, we're just second rate rogues. That means any PrC we want to take, we need to find them with special 'Monk Abiliites' that let us progress. Fighters don't worry bout 'fighter abilities' now do they?"

"Least you HAVE prestige classes that do that!" Hallid snapped with just a bit of spite. "If I take a PrC, even Eldrich Knight, I improve my sub-par spellcasting and loose my Hexing. Not even the DCs improve. What good is a hexblade that can't hex?"

"You needed to get the rules improved" Morthos said with satisfaction. "I got them to allow Spell-Like Abilities as a requirement. That means I came with a bunch of PrCs already, some of them even classic ones reworded to allow my entry!"

"But" Hallid, never one to lose so simply, snapped back "That only works for the handful of PrCs that got re-written with you in mind. There are hundreds of others you DON'T qualify for, like Archmage and Pale Master, and..."

"I get you point" Morthos said, staring daggers at Hallid.

Xerxes smiled. He leaned back in his chair and placed his hands behind his head. "Lucky for all of you. I don't even have that. I'm not a manifester, so most psionic classes are barred. My abilities aren't magical, so I don't get to improve my mind blade the way Morthos does his eldrich blast. If I stop for a PrC, My class abilities quickly become overshadowed by any good magic weapon the fighter can weild."

The four looked at each other and sighed. Then, the door swang open. A young stranger, draped in black, came in and walked to the table.

"I'm Serriena the Spell-thief*" She said. "I was wondering if I could..."

"Pull up a chair Serriena" Ember said instantly. "Welcome to the party."

* I actually have no idea id the spell-thief will have some unique power that doesn't scale well, but I'll hedge my bets...

 

[Crothian]

Monks have a lot of classes out there they can take, all the core classes do. But the father you get from the core classes and the less standard the abilities the fwewer and fewer classes exist. It really is to be expected.

edit: I also like how the characters insist they have to have classes that allow their abilities to increase in power as well. Nice power gaming touch.

 

[Nightfall]

Ember should have looked at Monk of the Sacred Chain. Even in 3.5, she'd be quite bad ass.

Oh and of course Player's Guide to Monks and Paladins...

 

[Sejs]

Heh, base classes that actually have something to lose by trading out class levels in exchange for the abilities gained by going up levels in a PrC are the ones that are (at least in part) designed right. A base class should be attractive for the full progression of a character, not just something you stick with for only so long before 'graduating' to a PrC.

Druid, Monk, and Bard are some of the core classes they did properly. You have to actually think for a while: "Hmm, do I want to stick with the base class, or work on this PrC instead? Because they're both equally attractive options."

 

[Remathilis]

I think you hit on it Sejs.

A fighter doesn't give up anything but bonus feats. A cleric (with full casting) give up nothing. Both of these classes can perform thier primary abilities (combat, spellcasting) without a serious hit when taking a focus in PrCs.

The four classes mentioned in the story all suffer in their primary abilities when taking a PrC unless the PrC is specifically for them. It might be the problem with OVERspecialization of those base classes. Who knows.

I wonder if something can be done so that the latter four classes don't loose as much as fighters, clerics or sorcerers?

 

[Psion]

A fighter doesn't give up anything but bonus feats.

That's no minor hit.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

That's no minor hit.

It is once you get the feats you want (almost certain by 12th level).

I wouldn't include monk in the list of PrC-crippled classes, though. Monk has great early abilities and good balance that make it an effective "dip" class for those so inclined, and many PrCs either advance or replace monk advancement.

Soulknives and hexblades definitely get the shaft PrC-wise. I haven't seen the Warlock yet, but from what I've heard, I'd probably houserule all the spellcasting progression classes to allow him to advance. Heck, since it sounds like he has a small number of powerful abilities (rather than a bloody third of the PHB plus splatbooks), I'd do anything to make his life easier.

I'm not sure about soulknives, but hexblades do have some use as the very beginning of a complicated progression. They can qualify for certain arcane-spellcasting-requirement classes without giving up BAB, and they get the absolutely excellent Mettle/Cha to saves vs. magic combo.

Also, paladins have, IMO, the same problem as hexblades. Not a whole lot of PrCs devoted to them and nothing to advance caster level-wise except for lame secondary casting.

 

[Corsair]

Also, paladins have, IMO, the same problem as hexblades. Not a whole lot of PrCs devoted to them and nothing to advance caster level-wise except for lame secondary casting.

Paladins have spellcasting? Geez, every time I've played a paladin, I've usually either multi'd with cleric/favored soul if I wanted casting (and then gone on to something like Hospitaler or Fist of Raziel), or went for a combat oriented prestige class. Spellcasting for a paladin or ranger are very minor issues imho.

 

[firenice]

Paladin spellcasting can play a good role. If your cleric is absent, you have a healer in the party. 95% of the parties have clerics, I realize, but there's that 5% that don't. While the Paladin will never make it as a primary caster, I definitely wouldn't call their abilities minor.

 

[MadMaxim]

I agree with firenice. A paladin with a wand of cure light wounds can be a regular life saver if you don't have a cleric in your party or if he's too busy to heal you.