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D&D 5E Preview Witchlight's New Rabbit People

You can take a look at the harengons, a rabbit-themed race in the upcoming Wild Beyond the Witchlight, over at D&D Beyond.

rabbit.jpg



Harengons are medium or small humanoids with a bonus to initiative, Dexterity saving throws, and a 'rabbit hop' which lets them jump up to five times their proficiency bonus without provoking opportunity attacks.

Creature Type. You are a Humanoid.

Size. You are Medium or Small. You choose the size when you select this race.

Speed. Your walking speed is 30 feet.

Hare-Trigger. You can add your proficiency bonus to your initiative rolls.

Leporine Senses. You have proficiency in the Perception skill.

Lucky Footwork. When you fail a Dexterity saving throw, you can use your reaction to roll a d4 and add it to the save, potentially turning the failure into a success. You can’t use this reaction if you’re prone or your speed is 0.

Rabbit Hop. As a bonus action, you can jump a number of feet equal to five times your proficiency bonus, without provoking opportunity attacks. You can use this trait only if your speed is greater than 0. You can use it a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

When you create a harengon or fairy using the rules from The Wild Beyond the Witchlight, you can choose to increase one ability score by 2 and another by 1, or choose to increase three different scores by 1. Further, you know Common and will choose one other language to learn.
 
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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey

AcererakTriple6

Autistic DM (he/him)
In 5e, specific beets general. Rabbit Hop has a specific range "five times your proficiency bonus". This is not modifiable by anything because it is specific. It's not affected by Haste, Slow, difficult terrain etc. It doesn't say "plus", "extra" or anything else to indicate it is additive.

At the time Bestial Soul was written, there was no other jumping it could apply to. Ergo the intent of the writer (RAI) was it modified jumping-as-part-of-movement (like the Jump spell). It has no affect on the range of any special movement abilities like Instinctive Pounce, Swiftstride Shifting Feature or Skirmisher.

It's not a matter of balance - clearly when characters can fly at first level the ability to jump really far is trivial - that's just how the 5e rules work.
You just moved the goalposts from "D&D isn't a keyword driven system" to "this doesn't work because of specific beats general".

Guess what also says how far you can jump using the systems described in the PHB? The rules for High Jumps and Long Jumps. And they can be modified. Jumping is the general rule (even if it's a Racial ability), the subclass mechanic is the specific rule. "Specific beats general" works in the favor of the Beast Bun-barian.

Whether or not one feature was written before the others is irrelevant. Plenty of rules are written at different times than others and are perfectly stackable. (And that's a non-argument, too. That's like saying "This doesn't work Rules as Written because of Rules as Intended". No, that's not how either of those things work. Rules as Intended doesn't get to determine what Rules as Written does once the rules are written.)

Why don't you want this to work, anyway? You've admitted that it's not a balance issue. What is it then?
 

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So in the game Final Fantasy Tactics and its various spinoffs, there's various races you make an army out of to defeat other armies. Viera (Amazonian bunny girls who you never seen the males of until FF14 dropped a trailer for them to be playable which some have claimed will result in the death of all catboys) are one of the races you can recruit. They're the agility based race and tend to get agility based classes as a result, with a smattering of magic ones. Basically? In D&D terms, they're elves. Rabbit elves.

Dragoon's are strength-based fighters who jump around and are one of the most iconic Final Fantasy classes. Viera can't get those, so the... I guess Dragonborn equivilent, the Bangaa, are the ones who get those.
why are there catboys and why do people fear there death?
 

You just moved the goalposts from "D&D isn't a keyword driven system" to "this doesn't work because of specific beats general".
Both rules are relevent. Rabbit Hop is a specific rule. The word "jump" used in Bestial Soul is not a keyword.
Guess what also says how far you can jump using the systems described in the PHB? The rules for High Jumps and Long Jumps. And they can be modified.
Yes, THEY can. Because they are not a specific special power. Jump spell and Bestial Soul are abilities that specifically modify those jumping rules.
Jumping is the general rule (even if it's a Racial ability)
Rabbit Hop is not "jumping". It's rules are completely separate to the jumping rules. When a Harengan jumps it uses the rules for jumping. when it uses Rabbit Hop it uses the rules for Rabbit Hop. Harengan have no racial abilities that modify jumping.
Whether or not one feature was written before the others is irrelevant.
No it's not. If a rule is written after, the author would put in "this doesn't apply to X" when it doesn't apply to X. If it is written before "doesn't apply to X" is implied. In order to analyse text for authorial intent you need to know the context.
Why don't you want this to work, anyway? You've admitted that it's not a balance issue. What is it then?
I don't care, you can make up any rules you like, I'm just pointing out how the 5e rules work, since you seemed to be uncertain. Intuitively, it would make sense for the Jump spell to multiply the range of Rabbit Hop by three, and I would probably allow it, but that's called house rules.
 

why are there catboys and why do people fear there death?
So, Final Fantasy 14 started with 5 races. Hyur (Humans), Lalafell (Small race, we call 'em potatoes), Elezen (Elves), and two gender locked races. Roegadyn (Big tough dudes, think goliaths, orcs or ogres, they come in green and red) could only be Male, and Miqo'te (Catgirls) could only be Female.

As you may or may not know though, the original launch of FF14 went... Poorly. Real bad. And in the launch of A Realm Reborn (IE: Remaking FF14 from the ground up to actually be good this time), they added in female Roegadyn and male Miqo'te. Today, female Roe are a rare sight, but male Miqo'te are one of the most popular races due to 'attractive catboy' being an aesthetic. Their reign continued for years, with the newer races since like the Au ra (People with horns and scales), Hrothgar (Male-only cat people based on FF10's Ronso) and Viera (Female only) unable to put a dent in their numbers.

Until now, as male Viera are on the horizon. Many who rolled miqo'te just to be 'cute boy character' are now faced with a rival, cute bunny boy. So many predict the male viera will outnumber the male miqo'te, a thousand times over
 

Bird Of Play

Explorer
But there isn't nuance here. There is literally none. @Bird Of Play was saying that they don't want Rabbitfolk in D&D because they don't like them, think that the people that do like them like childish things, and are taking too much inspiration from video games (and then judging those people based on their tastes in those video games). There's no nuance there. It's just clear, textbook gatekeeping of an element that one person may not prefer or enjoy, and then judging and pointing fingers because of their own personal biases. That is exactly what's happening. There is no nuance there.

And I don't think there's any evidence that "one of these creatures, in the source material, would live in a swamp or is a curse that lives all alone in some mystical forest". That's just plain made up, there's no support for that argument.

There's also no reason why Rabbitfolk couldn't have their own villages or even kingdoms. Why would Rabbitfolk be less inclined towards civilization building than any other race, especially the other animalfolk races? Why would a Tortle or Aarakocra be capable of building a village or kingdom, and not a Harengon? Wait a moment. Don't answer that, because I already have the answer: there is no reason or justification for this mindset. None.

And, finally, Harengon come from the Feywild. The world that they come from doesn't have to support civilizations of Tortles, Aarakocra, and every other type of animalfolk. Many of the official animalfolk races are setting-specific (Simic Hybrids, Leonins, etc), and the ones that would coexist in a generic fantasy world (like the Forgotten Realms) could easily do so without butting into each other or competing for land due to the existence of different Planes. Aarakocra come from the Elemental Plane of Air, Harengon and Satyrs come from the Feywild, Tritons come from the Elemental Plane of Water, and so on. There's no reason to say "it doesn't make sense for them to exist in the same setting, because they would compete for land!" in a world where there are literally different planes of existence (and demiplanes, like Domains of Dread and Delight).


Don't put words into my mouth, thanks.

@Scott Christian at least said "I THINK Bird Of Play is PROBABLY saying"...... and he was also right. He nailed it. I'm sorry, but a world with an entire civilization of rabbitfolks is silly to me. Suspension of disbelief is funny like this, you may think elves and dwarves are a-ok but somehow you draw the line at anthro-rabbits.

You? You didn't say "I think Bird Of Play"..... you decided what -I- wanted to say. And, guess what? You were wrong.

I think rabbitfolks are dumb and ill-fitted to D&D. You know the thing about wererats/werewolves/werefoxes/weretigers etc.? They're not an entire race with towns and stuff, they're a special event.

If we got wererabbits, I would be ok with it.

You might reasonably say "but even old editions had lizardfolks and such!". Yep. But 1) what makes you think I ever used them in my campaigns?; 2) there's absolutely a tonal shift between lizardfolks and rabbitfolks, and let's not pretend we're not seeing it.

I don't want to go into this subject anymore. I just don't like rabbitfolks as a race in my D&D. I just don't like anime-themed mmorpg either. You can't police what I like, otherwise the one doing the gatekeeping is the one not accepting that some people might not like your stuff.
 

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
But Viera can't become Dragoons! That class is exclusive to the Bangaa Tribe in Ivalice.
That's horrible?!?!

I always set up Fran as a Dragoon/Ulhan in my games back in the day (heavy armors and lance/poles, offset by Fran natural speed)!

The main Command of the class is Jump, how is that not a rabbit-themed class!?

/jk

PS: I've been campaigning for years now to have Ivalice as a campaign setting. Or a more general D&D: Legends of the Crystals, with stats for races/magic items across the different FF settings. Now's the time!
 
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The main Command of the class is Jump, how is that not a rabbit-themed class!?
Understandable on the shock of it. Although technically Freya was a Mouse Girl.

Then again the Dragoon is basically a Dragon Knight so I guess they figured that the Dragonbornish Bangharra were qualified for being that since they are lizards/dragons pretty much.
 

I honestly wouldn't have no probs having a Haregon doing the normal jumping rules, and then as a Reaction using their Rabbit Jump ability to "double jump" video game style through the air.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Interesting. I don't think I agree with that.

Snark is mocking, which engages ego and emotions, and substantially block the recipient's ability to actually listen to you. It can raise support of those who already agree with you, but they don't need the information you present, and it does not position you as a reasonable person who respects whoever they are referring to.

I think I would consider some of H.L. Mencken's most famous bon mots to be "snarky", and I think they are memorable precisely because they were effective and succinct communication.

They are memorable, but not persuasive. How many people who disagree with what Mencken is trying to say are persuaded by that biting wit? Probably few. Nobody likes being bitten.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Snark is mocking, which engages ego and emotions, and substantially block the recipient's ability to actually listen to you. It can raise support of those who already agree with you, but they don't need the information you present, and it does not position you as a reasonable person who respects whoever they are referring to.



They are memorable, but not persuasive. How many people who disagree with what Mencken is trying to say are persuaded by that biting wit? Probably few. Nobody likes being bitten.
I think the purpose of snark is negative reinforcement for the observers, rather than the recipient. On the internet, the arguments are usually performative to sway the other readers of the argument because the participants' positions are assumed to be (and usually are) immutable.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Both rules are relevent. Rabbit Hop is a specific rule. The word "jump" used in Bestial Soul is not a keyword.
No one but you thinks the idea of “keywords” is relevant, though. No idea of the Barbarian ability modifying rabbit hop relies on the idea of keywords.
Yes, THEY can. Because they are not a specific special power. Jump spell and Bestial Soul are abilities that specifically modify those jumping rules.
Not really. They modify any jump, which rabbit hop is.
Rabbit Hop is not "jumping".
Yes, it is. It literally is a racial ability that lets you jump as a bonus action. The wording of rules matters in 5e, and just like how a racial ability that says it is magical won’t work in a beholders anti-magic cone, a ability that describes jumping is modified by things that modify jumping, unless they specifically say otherwise.
It's rules are completely separate to the jumping rules.
This is entirely unsupported by the rules text.
When a Harengan jumps it uses the rules for jumping. when it uses Rabbit Hop it uses the rules for Rabbit Hop. Harengan have no racial abilities that modify jumping.
They have an ability to that allows them to jump with a specified range. That isn’t “modify[ing] jumping”, it’s just…jumping.
No it's not. If a rule is written after, the author would put in "this doesn't apply to X" when it doesn't apply to X. If it is written before "doesn't apply to X" is implied. In order to analyse text for authorial intent you need to know the context.
No. The rules text is the rules text. You are creating a personal house rule based on an assumption about how a rule would have been written, with no actual basis in anything but your own opinion. There is no reason to beleive that they would have written the beast Barbarian differently with harengon had been published first.
I don't care, you can make up any rules you like, I'm just pointing out how the 5e rules work, since you seemed to be uncertain. Intuitively, it would make sense for the Jump spell to multiply the range of Rabbit Hop by three, and I would probably allow it, but that's called house rules.
No, that’s RAW.
there's absolutely a tonal shift between lizardfolks and rabbitfolks
No, there isn’t.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I think the purpose of snark is negative reinforcement for the observers, rather than the recipient. On the internet, the arguments are usually performative to sway the other readers of the argument because the participants' positions are assumed to be (and usually are) immutable.
Well, that, and what Umbran is saying isn’t even actually true. Snark can absolutely be effective and persuasive.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I think the purpose of snark is negative reinforcement for the observers, rather than the recipient. On the internet, the arguments are usually performative to sway the other readers of the argument because the participants' positions are assumed to be (and usually are) immutable.

Even then, the vast majority of folks walk into the situation with some leaning or other. If they identify more with the target, you turn them off to what you're saying. If they agree with your position, you aren't giving them anything new. The snark is thus not about communication, but about social positioning and dominance.

And, you know, with red text already in the thread, maybe arguing in support of social dominance plays... is not what one would call a wise idea.
 


Honest question: where you ever persuaded to change an opinion by someone being snarky at you?

I've been thinking about this (given that it was my snark that has been called out). I don't think I've ever been persuaded by snark alone to change a position, but I do think there have been times where I've been jolted into realizing that an assumption I comfortably hold is not, in fact, shared by everybody, which in turn causes me to be more attentive and thoughtful, which can eventually lead to a change in position. Or, at least, an understanding of other positions. Would I have gotten there without that initial jolt? Hard to say.

And, yes, there is a difference between writing a column in which you are really just preaching to the choir in order to sell subscriptions (in which case snark is an effective tool) and engaging in a discussion in a community. Or, in what you hope is a community.
 

Don't put words into my mouth, thanks.

@Scott Christian at least said "I THINK Bird Of Play is PROBABLY saying"...... and he was also right. He nailed it. I'm sorry, but a world with an entire civilization of rabbitfolks is silly to me. Suspension of disbelief is funny like this, you may think elves and dwarves are a-ok but somehow you draw the line at anthro-rabbits.

You? You didn't say "I think Bird Of Play"..... you decided what -I- wanted to say. And, guess what? You were wrong.

I think rabbitfolks are dumb and ill-fitted to D&D. You know the thing about wererats/werewolves/werefoxes/weretigers etc.? They're not an entire race with towns and stuff, they're a special event.

If we got wererabbits, I would be ok with it.

You might reasonably say "but even old editions had lizardfolks and such!". Yep. But 1) what makes you think I ever used them in my campaigns?; 2) there's absolutely a tonal shift between lizardfolks and rabbitfolks, and let's not pretend we're not seeing it.

I don't want to go into this subject anymore. I just don't like rabbitfolks as a race in my D&D. I just don't like anime-themed mmorpg either. You can't police what I like, otherwise the one doing the gatekeeping is the one not accepting that some people might not like your stuff.
have you tried apathy toward the rabbit folk like I am towards the halflings?
 





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