Previewing the new XP system

[Khaalis]

Edited on Morrus's request to split into different topics. I've left only the specific XP related topics...


For XP... I'm not certain how to handle this. Currently it will always be cheaper and more optimal to get multiple related Traditions (since more Attributes usually far outweighs Grade abilities) than to focus on 1 or 2 Traditions. I thought about a down-scaling XP cost (i.e. 2K = Grade2, 1.5K = Grade3, 1K = Grade 4, 500 = Grade 5) to encourage upping existing Tradition grades, but in the end that only encourages Multi-Traditions at Creation.

Perhaps a limit on the number of different traditions at creation to 2? Then if you want more for the concept you have to buy them with advancement? This is going to be a tough nut to crack and make it feel balanced, but might work, especially with the down-scaling XP for existing Traditions in addition to perhaps splitting Upgrading and Learning New Traditions like you did for skills?
e.g.
Advance a grade in a tradition: 1,000 x the new Grade
Learn a New Tradition at Grade I: X,000 (maybe 3K?)


***
On a similar but different note are you happy with the current XP numbers?

For instance +1 Grade in a Tradition is worth:
* +6 Attribute points (on average, see above)
* +1 skill (new or upgrade)
* +1 spell list (if a caster)

By Grade 2 that's a total per Tradition (assuming starting at Grade 1) of 14,000 upgrade XP for 5th Grade in 1 Tradition, for:
* +24 Attribute Points
* +6 skills (ranks or new)
* +6 spell lists

That would cost individually an insane amount of XP at well over 40+K xp.
* 24 Attributes = Incalculably expensive.
Example: 1 attribute starting at 4 being increased by +5 would cost 7,000 xp. If you increased 6 stats by +5 that's 35,000xp.
* +6 skills = 1,300-1,400 xp (1 new; plus either 4 G2 or 3 G2+ 1 G3 upgrades)
* +6 spell lists = 6,000 xp

I understand you want to steer toward upgrading Traditions as a more traditional way to "level" but as it stands, the benefits of leveling Grades in Traditions so incredibly outweighs "free-form" advancement, that I don't think anyone would even look at the free-form style seriously. You may as well just say at X? xp you gain +1 grade in a Tradition, just like a level-based game. IMHO, I think the numbers need to be rebalanced to make free-form advancement at least viable if still slightly less attractive than an advancement in a Tradition Grade.

 

[Morrus]

Would you have the time to separate these points into their own threads? As presented it's a heck of a Gish Gallop (without the assiciated negative connotations), and a million partial quote-replies is just going to exacerbate that.

 

[Wojorides]

Time is a significant cost for a new tradition

IF the time d6 years or more are enforced for new traditions then that alone will stop most chop-changing. Getting a party of 6 people all agreeing to take 4 years off from adventuring so you can get that one skill is going to be a _itch in my experience.

Although, as a note, starting a new tradition isn't the same as gaining a new grade in one. I haven't priced that yet - it's going to be higher to discourage too much messy chop-changing for single abilities. If it's at the same ratio as a new skill is to increasing a skill, it'd be 2,500XP (flat) for the regular progression. But I haven't actually had anyone start a new tradition yet, so it hasn't had any input at all.

 

[Khaalis]

IF the time d6 years or more are enforced for new traditions then that alone will stop most chop-changing. Getting a party of 6 people all agreeing to take 4 years off from adventuring so you can get that one skill is going to be a _itch in my experience.

In most games, using the "1d6 years" as part of the "cost" of learning a new tradition basically makes the game pretty much a non-multiclass system other than what you pick at creation. That's too restrictive and it also stifles creative advancement saying that characters are pretty much locked into their starting choices.

 

[Wojorides]

alternative to new careers

If they dont want to spend the time, they can buy each item in the career including attribute increases for the first level of the tradition, then increase the tradition as normal. yes its more expensive for that first level, but that should allow them to expand where they NEED to rather then just cherry picking traditions for level one beanies.

In most games, using the "1d6 years" as part of the "cost" of learning a new tradition basically makes the game pretty much a non-multiclass system other than what you pick at creation. That's too restrictive and it also stifles creative advancement saying that characters are pretty much locked into their starting choices.

 

[Sniperfox47]

Honestly a simple and elegant answer would be to just set the XP cost as being either

1000 x (total tradition grades - 5)

Or

500 + 500 x (total tradition grades - 5)

Where total tradition grades is the grades in all traditions and the -5 removes the starting ones from the count. The first costs the same as advancing one tradition in the current system, the latter is a slowed down progression to balance it against the removal of a multiclassing bonus.

This would solve the problem of multiclassing (since it would cost the same), would add decreasing returns per XP point as you get stronger (balanced by the more xp you get from tougher enemies), and would also solve the issue with increased costs for the same bonus with single-classing...

Just my two cents of course.