Price of Plate Armor

[frankthedm]

Why not just have a rule to say you start off with any armor you are proficient in?

Even when raping PCs on resale rate of 20%, if plate costed anywhere near AD&D/3E plate prices, it still might be worth lugging plate back to town to sell it. This way, any NPC who should have mundane plate, can have plate giving any significant treasure. In 3e Full plate was 3 times more valuable than silver coins on resale value to weight ratio. Now Copper coins are 2.5 times more valuable than resold plate.

 

[Dausuul]

Even when raping PCs on resale rate of 20%, if plate costed anywhere near AD&D/3E plate prices, it still might be worth lugging plate back to town to sell it. This way, any NPC who should have mundane plate, can have plate giving any significant treasure. In 3e Full plate was 3 times more valuable than silver coins on resale value to weight ratio. Now Copper coins are 2.5 times more valuable than resold plate.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is the game-mechanical reason. It's always a pain when the PCs decide to become arms dealers and cart around great heaps of mundane armor and weaponry taken from fallen foes.

 

[Sashi]

At 1500 gp for 50 pounds purchase price, full plate was worth 15 gp/lb on resale.

Full plate was worth 1.5 PLATINUM/lb, and that's in resale. Purchasing it was worth 3x as much as platinum. It's the most valuable treasure you can cart around, until you start getting +1 daggers and such.

Having such valuable armor doesn't impact the player's purchasing power (they just have to wait until 2nd level to buy full plate, oh dear). but it really messes with treasure tables ("Subtract 6000gp because they stripped 8 guys in full plate")

 

[gizmo33]

Plate Armor costs 50gp because the value of a gold piece, and the costs of all items, are based around the idea of being balanced for a game, not being realistic. Heck, do you really think a simple leather backpack would have cost two entire gold coins? But in D&D, it does, regardless that that price is mind-boggling from a realistic POV, and I don't see anyone complaining about that.

Actually, I was just about to start complaining but you beat me to it. I don't know why it's so essential to game balance that a backpack costs 2 gp. I think in many of these situations, making up random numbers for cost that make no sense in terms of economics, raw material costs, etc. is more a matter of the 4E designers just not caring at all about realism issues. I'm not convinced that realism and game-balance are in conflict with each other anyway.

 

[Gort]

I love how everyone complains about plate being cheap, and forgets to complain about it being rubbish.

 

[Yaezakura]

Actually, I was just about to start complaining but you beat me to it. I don't know why it's so essential to game balance that a backpack costs 2 gp. I think in many of these situations, making up random numbers for cost that make no sense in terms of economics, raw material costs, etc. is more a matter of the 4E designers just not caring at all about realism issues. I'm not convinced that realism and game-balance are in conflict with each other anyway.

Considering a backpack also cost 2gp in 3.5... and a simple leather belt pouch costs 1gp in both... and a common lantern is 7gp in both... It's hardly 4th edition that started using outrageously unrealistic prices for items. In fact, items have never been priced in a realistic fashion for D&D.

Everything is priced with adventurers in mind, not normal people. But that's fine, because this is a fantasy RPG, not a real-world medieval Europe simulator. So what's stopping plate armor from only costing 50gp in a world where dragons are real and it's a very distinct possibility the king is the thrall of a mind flayer?

 

[Dausuul]

Actually, I was just about to start complaining but you beat me to it. I don't know why it's so essential to game balance that a backpack costs 2 gp. I think in many of these situations, making up random numbers for cost that make no sense in terms of economics, raw material costs, etc. is more a matter of the 4E designers just not caring at all about realism issues. I'm not convinced that realism and game-balance are in conflict with each other anyway.

Me neither. I mean, stuff like backpacks and waterskins... I'm not sure those should even have a price attached. Really, when was the last time you had to seriously debate whether to spend money on a backpack? Two freakin' gold is nothing to an adventurer unless the DM is being a tightwad extraordinaire. It's just a bit of extra bookkeeping, with some verisimilitude breakage thrown in for good measure.

I think the system should only bother putting prices on stuff where the price is significant. Everything else can be handwaved as "standard adventuring gear" - let encumbrance be the limiting factor there.

Considering a backpack also cost 2gp in 3.5... and a simple leather belt pouch costs 1gp in both... and a common lantern is 7gp in both... It's hardly 4th edition that started using outrageously unrealistic prices for items. In fact, items have never been priced in a realistic fashion for D&D.

"They did it in 3E" does not make it good. If it did, we wouldn't have needed 4E in the first place.

Everything is priced with adventurers in mind, not normal people.

Hmm, there is that, I suppose...

 

[Yaezakura]

"They did it in 3E" does not make it good. If it did, we wouldn't have needed 4E in the first place.

I said that mostly because gizmo seems to think the outrageous prices of things started in 4th edition, when things have been outrageously priced since D&D was first developed.

And those things have prices attached because even basic adventuring gear needs prices. What is someone wants to run a game where the PCs start with almost nothing, not even basic gear, and wants them to build up from there? What if the PCs are captured, all their equipment and gear stripped away, and they're unable to recover it?

They have prices because people need prices for them.

 

[GoLu]

Actually, I was just about to start complaining but you beat me to it. I don't know why it's so essential to game balance that a backpack costs 2 gp.

Gold rush prices.

2 gp might be outrageous from a normal point of view, but when an adventurer comes into town and needs supplies quickly, you tack an extra zero (at least!) onto the price. It's not like they'll notice. These are the guys that pay an outrageous 2 silver for a pitcher of ale and then go and tip 800% on top of that because they don't want to be seen grubbing for change. So you tell them about some local rumor or something. Whatever keeps them coming back and keeps you on their good side.

 

[Thasmodious]

That's half your starting wealth. The armor is valued at five whole cows. It's not a trivial purchase for armor which isn't even all that good. It's no warplate, that's for sure. And it doesn't enshroud the wearer in holy flames, let them soar on gigantic batlike wings, or blast attackers with retributive jets of acid. It's just... metal. It sits there, not blessed by Moradin, not enameled with Eladrin sigils of power, not forged with the black iron hearts of defeated warbeasts or the inflused with the blood of dragons, not painted in elder runes or neigh-forgotton patterns. If you are lucky, it makes you harder to kill. But it's just a layer of common, non-magical metal between you and death, and while that metal is better than nothing, there are many better things in the world that could be more efficiently and more comfortably protecting your body.

This is an excellent post and perfectly captures the intent of the pricing. In the real medieval world, plate was as good as it gets. In a fantasy world, plate is a "starter set".