D&D 5E Primeval Awareness and other hidden gems

[Riley37]

If anyone actually tried to keep guidance up all the time in my group, I'd require the player to constantly chant loud enough to be heard by the other players.

Would you require it specifically for Guidance, or for Concentration on all cantrips, or would you also require chanting for all Concentration spells, eg if a PC spent went scouting while maintaining Invisibility for an (in-game) hour?

Other cantrips with Concentration:
Dancing Lights; can the caster renew Dancing Lights every minute as the party progresses into a cave, and does that require chanting?
If a PC casts Friends, do they have to chant to maintain Concentration, during their social interactions and stat checks?
Also: Resistance and True Strike. It would be nice to always have those ready in case you get attacked...

I can't object if you have a chant-to-concentrate house rule; but I encourage consistency.

 

[Jaelommiss]

when would and wouldn't you tell a player "no, you may not cast that cantrip"?

I think he as referring to continuously reapplying it to oneself every minute so that you may use it at any given moment. If there is no real reason to use the spell then I would ask why the cleric is casting it. "Orcs might ambush us in the next minute and I'd like to boost my initiative." is probably not a valid reason unless the cleric was played as utterly paranoid. Preparing for possible initiative when opening a door in a dungeon that you heard noises from is entirely different to casting it every waking minute while travelling to the next town.

I play a wizard with the magic initiate feat to gain the guidance cantrip and it is certainly an immensely powerful cantrip, but I would never ask my DM if I could cast the spell every 54 second just in case something happened. I only use it if I'm pretty certain that my target will get to use it before it expires. If WotC wanted it to be an always active buff they would have made the duration to eight hours, no concentration.

Asking your deity for help with a specific task is fine. Asking your deity to hold your hand wherever you go is not.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I've always figured "unlimited use" to mean "unlimited for practical and mechanical purpose when assuming a relatively sane interpretation."

But no, I am not prepared to let any character cast a spell over and over, every minute, all day. Hell, just try singing Happy Birthday aloud every minute for your entire day, and see how long your voice and mental faculties hold out.

 

[Joe Liker]

Even if the DM artificially (and punitively) limits the cleric's use of guidance, it's still not that hard to gain the bonus. Just cast it whenever you are about to enter a room in a dungeon. The DM can't really claim that's unreasonable -- there's bound to be some kind of nasty surprise in there, right?

(Also, a better way for the DM to handle this is to make sure every monster with divine magic knows guidance and uses the same trick.)

In the big picture, a tiny initiative bonus isn't really a good reason for the DM to go all draconian. Stop looking for ways to say "no" to your players and let them have their fun.

 

[Zaruthustran]

I think he as referring to continuously reapplying it to oneself every minute so that you may use it at any given moment. ...I would never ask my DM if I could cast the spell every 54 second just in case something happened.

Oh wow, is that what he meant? I misunderstood. Yeah, casting a spell over and over all day every minute is ridiculous. And would likely piss off your god, if you're operating under The Order of the Stick's conceptualization of the cleric/god relationship: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0040.html

But: casting that spell--as a distinct, separate act--before every check when the party can spare the 6 seconds? Totally legit.

 

[Joe Liker]

But no, I am not prepared to let any character cast a spell over and over, every minute, all day. Hell, just try singing Happy Birthday aloud every minute for your entire day, and see how long your voice and mental faculties hold out.

Happy Birthday takes about a minute to sing all the way through. Guidance take 6 seconds.

For the devout, it might be considered the equivalent of whistling in the dark. While he was fishing, my grandfather would whistle a short refrain extremely often. I don't know if it was every minute, but it sure seemed like it.

 

[sunrisekid]

Great thing to do right before you settle down for a long rest.

Here's a DM idea for when they prepare to camp: Roll for wandering monsters - if 'yes', and the monster is detectable by the ranger, let her know in advance that said monster is in the vicinity, then let the players choose to quietly depart or prepare an ambush... ;-)

 

[Riley37]

casting a spell over and over all day every minute is ridiculous. And would likely piss off your god...

But: casting that spell--as a distinct, separate act--before every check when the party can spare the 6 seconds? Totally legit.

On the first part: it's a *cantrip*, clerics can cast it at will, without needing their god to renew spell slots. See the parable about teaching someone to fish, rather than re-supplying them daily with fish. Or loaves.

On the second part: on the scale and interpretation you consider legit, Guidance is a hidden gem, on the scale of Primeval Awareness if not more so. Getting +1d4 whenever (a) you're about to attempt a stat-check task (b) you can spare six seconds (c) there aren't deterrents such as a need for silence: that's huge in a system with so few other actual plusses. If you've got +8 from stats and proficiency, Advantage will help you get a 15 or 20 or 25, but it won't ever get you to 30. Guidance might get you to 30.

There are in-setting issues and there are metagame issues.

Within the setting: If you're a god, and one of your clerics dies in the temple of Elemental Evil, and one stat check would have made the difference between survival and failure, then are you happy or unhappy that the cleric refrained from keeping Guidance active?

Within the game: does rolling d20+d4 become standard for noncombat skill checks? does the DM stop for a moment, on every stat check, to consider whether or not Guidance applies, or does trust the players to keep that in mind and roll either (d20) or (d20+d4) as appropriate?

Is a party without a cleric at a substantial disadvantage, even if they have adequate healing (paladins and other spellcasters and gallons of Healing Potion)? Is a Lore Bard at a substantial disadvantage if one of their first two Magical Secrets isn't Guidance? (Compared to other Lore Bards, of course, but even so.)

Do you allow the recasting of Dancing Lights every minute, for a party advancing into a dark cave? If so, does that create a precedent for Guidance, Friends and Resistance, in a way you consider abusive or inappropriate to the setting/story?

I am not arguing that every DM should allow 24/7 casting of Resistance, or Dancing Lights, or Guidance. (Friends has a built-in limit, because it also makes Enemies.) I am saying that Guidance, as written, may test whether DMs and players are on the same page about (a) the relationship between gods and clerics, (b) the importance of divine Guidance for heroes going on difficult, dangerous missions, (c) the pacing of gameplay, (d) the lethality level of adventuring.

Gandalf told Thorin that he'd better bring along a burglar. In 5E, either the DM nerfs Guidance as written, or Thorin would be a fool to go after Smaug without the help of someone who can cast Guidance.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I think realism is a good enough reason to ban casting guidance every minute. It would send anybody insane. But readying it for each doorway, etc, cool. I would have given it a 10 min cooldown myself, something like that.

 

[Dausuul]

I think realism is a good enough reason to ban casting guidance every minute. It would send anybody insane. But readying it for each doorway, etc, cool. I would have given it a 10 min cooldown myself, something like that.

"Realism" is that when your life is on the line, you do what you have to in order to stay alive. If you're moving through hostile territory that you know for a fact is crawling with monsters and loaded with lethal traps, and a little bit of chanting every sixty seconds could make the difference between life and death? You freakin' chant. What? You're bored? Bored? Well, maybe GETTING YOUR FACE EATEN will liven things up, soldier. Now, you start chanting and you keep chanting!

I will agree that it's not something you could keep up all day, every day. People have to rest. But while you're actually in a dungeon, unless there's some constraint not being presented in the book, it's entirely realistic for the cleric to keep guidance up at all times. As others have pointed out, dancing lights also has a minute duration; how many DMs would refuse to let the party use it for illumination?