Problem DM - How Should a Player Handle It?

[TheAuldGrump]

This sort of came up on another thread - but what should a player do when the DM is doing a poor job of it - whether a Mary Sue DMPC, a railroad plot, a PCs are witnesses plot, and/or one or several characters are made useless by the circumstances of a given scenario?

Whining is counter productive, complaining may prove useless, or the same problems keep happening in spite of talking to the DM in question - so what should they do, except vote with their feet?

The Auld Grump, who has been guilty of several of the above, though not recently....

 

[Lilaxe]

I played in a campaign for a while that was very poorly Dm'd. All the classic signs. DM Characters who were awarded good magic items because they miraculously fit him best. a PC (his best friend) who fit most of the remaining magic items due to class and level. Random encounters that were so tough almost 80% of the party were reduced below 0 h.p. except for his NPC and the best friends PC. You name it - it was there.

The solution? I found 2 other games, both better and have never looked back. Poor DMing is usually not fixable, its best to just look elsewhere. its that, or become his best friend so you get all the good stuff.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I played in a campaign for a while that was very poorly Dm'd. All the classic signs. DM Characters who were awarded good magic items because they miraculously fit him best. a PC (his best friend) who fit most of the remaining magic items due to class and level. Random encounters that were so tough almost 80% of the party were reduced below 0 h.p. except for his NPC and the best friends PC. You name it - it was there.

The solution? I found 2 other games, both better and have never looked back. Poor DMing is usually not fixable, its best to just look elsewhere. its that, or become his best friend so you get all the good stuff.

That actually sounds remarkably like the first game that I was ever in - I ended up DMing after we threw the DM and his best friend out of the group. Were you gaming in Portsmouth N.H. ca. 1976 or so?

In the group I am talking about the best friend would cast Charm Person on the rest of the party, and end up running everybody's characters.

The Auld Grump

 

[Jdvn1]

I used the same solution as Lilaxe.

I had a GM who severely railroaded the party at all times, and major plotpoints were solved via deus ex machina. He had a story he wanted to tell, and he insisted on using D&D as his medium. He's no longer my GM.

 

[jdrakeh]

I was that DM (in fairness, I think we all are or have been at one time or another). For a long time, my players were plenty disatisfied but never told me. When they did finally speak up, it was through a 'whiner' -- but I'm glad that they got around to it. Had they just stayed quiet and never said anything (or, rather, had the designated 'whiner' speak for them), I never would have known what I was doing poorly, and I would still be that DM*.

*I still am that DM with regard to new, never-before-played, systems that differ greatly from those that I am familiar with. Again, though, I think we all are. I don't know anybody that picks up something as different as My Life With Master and makes a perfect go of it the first time out.

 

[Darklone]

I was that DM (in fairness, I think we all are or have been at one time or another).

Agreed.

DMs can change, but it takes time. Does everyone here remember how long it took him/her to become the DMs we are now? And still I'm making mistakes ... sometimes even bad mistakes.

Relax, enjoy the show and give him friendly advice ... feedback rules anyone?
- Tell him what he does. Not how you see it!
- Tell him how you feel about it.
- Tell him you like gaming with him.

 

[Mort]

This sort of came up on another thread - but what should a player do when the DM is doing a poor job of it - whether a Mary Sue DMPC, a railroad plot, a PCs are witnesses plot, and/or one or several characters are made useless by the circumstances of a given scenario?

Whining is counter productive, complaining may prove useless, or the same problems keep happening in spite of talking to the DM in question - so what should they do, except vote with their feet?

The Auld Grump, who has been guilty of several of the above, though not recently....

One solution is to (politely) offer to DM for a while. I've met very few DM's who would turn down an offer to play. They may even learn something and if not, well maybe they're a better player than DM.

Another thing to keep in mind is that there's a world of difference between whining and constructive criticism. A while back, I put down the DM reins after 5 years (I was tired and really wanted to just play for a while).

One of the other players offered to DM.

He made every rookie mistake you can think of (annoying overly powerful NPCs, not enough plot hooks, witness plots when we finally found a hook, etc.)

But he was all for constructive criticism and learning from his mistakes and slowly but surely turned into a very good DM.

The point, I guess, is you never know until you let them stumble for a bit - very few people start off being a good DM.

 

[Maikl]

It sounds like the DM was 13 years old or so... That's a typical behaviour in that age

 

[cougent]

This sort of came up on another thread - but what should a player do when the DM is doing a poor job of it - whether a Mary Sue DMPC, a railroad plot, a PCs are witnesses plot, and/or one or several characters are made useless by the circumstances of a given scenario?

Whining is counter productive, complaining may prove useless, or the same problems keep happening in spite of talking to the DM in question - so what should they do, except vote with their feet?

The Auld Grump, who has been guilty of several of the above, though not recently....

Following from that other thread
I think in the past I would have done just that, said "I'm outta here" and moved on. I like to think and hope that today as a player I would try to have an OOG frank discussion with the DM before resorting to the feet. As a DM I have fairly solidly resorted to either being approached, or even approaching players who seemed unhappy even if they did not say anything. All of this is though predicated on all parties acting like adults.

Add whining (and worse yet open rudeness) and my attitude changes 180 degrees about. That may not be politically correct these days, but that is just me.

As a player (recently started in a new game after several years from the other side) I try to give the DM the benefit of the doubt. In our second session I "felt" like my Gnome Illusionist* was being "picked on" and he did take more hits and damage than any of the other 4 party members even while away from the fray. [bad rolls to hit them, lucky crits on me] However knowing the DM (a former player of mine) I knew this was not the case, it was just luck of the die. While my PC was at -3 but stable, I took a quick break, grabbed another cold one, streched and walked outside in the nice cool evening air and came back in with no ill will. Our cleric (who was fighting for his life also) managed to get to me and cast CLW for 4 points and I was conscious again... woohoo!

In another instance, as DM I totally blew the call on an issue with a Psionic PC, and he asked me in game about my call (politely, but frustrated). I stuck with it, he grudgingly went along. After the game he came to me, book in hand to point out my mistake. I agreed with him and made the proper adjustments for the next session.

I have no problem with being wrong or mistaken, on some days it seems to be more the norm than the exception. I just expect a certain civility when being informed of my wrongness.



*Yes I said Gnome Illusionist, had to try it just to see why so many hated Gnomes

 

[Crothian]

I'd talk to the DM. I don't have to whine or complain to get my point across. It's also why I play with friends who know and respect my opinion just as I do theirs.