Problem DM - How Should a Player Handle It?

[BlueBlackRed]

We've had a bad game or two over the years.
So long as we're as nice as possible, "the talk" usually goes pretty well.

It still hurts the DM, but the alternative would have been much worse (group collapse).

 

[pawsplay]

I usually resort to gentle, yet pointed sarcasm.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I usually resort to gentle, yet pointed sarcasm.

Sarcasm is another tendency I have to watch for, in my case, maybe not so gentle.

But I will allow that it is better than whining. A little, anyway. Less likely to annoy the other players, while still getting the point across.

The Auld Grump

 

[prosfilaes]

I usually resort to gentle, yet pointed sarcasm.

I think I'd almost rather have whining. Whining at least is immature; the points of sarcasm draw blood, but sarcasm has an elitism to it that makes it harder to respond to.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

I think I'd almost rather have whining. Whining at least is immature; the points of sarcasm draw blood, but sarcasm has an elitism to it that makes it harder to respond to.

I would have to agree.
A lot of people don't respond to sarcasm very well.
I know I'm 50/50 on it when it's offered as criticism. I either get it or I consider the person to be a jerk who's opinion should be ignored (at best).

 

[Umbran]

Whining is counter productive, complaining may prove useless, or the same problems keep happening in spite of talking to the DM in question - so what should they do, except vote with their feet?

Seems to me you missed an option: Discussing. Whining and complaining are typified by a tone that is not cooperative. This contrasts with discussion, with is less about how much you don't like a thing, and more about finding solutions.

A mature bunch of player should be able to discuss the game with the DM. If either the players or the DM are not up to that challenge, then I suspect it isn't the sort of game I would like to be in.

 

[Umbran]

But I will allow that it is better than whining.

I'm not sure I agree.

When someone whines, while they may not be helping to solve the problem, at least they are being direct and honest about. Sarcasm has the edge of passive-aggressiveness. Sarcasm says, "I won't actually tell you what I think is wrong, but I will lay something out there and expect you to pick up the hint interpret it in the way I mean it, and then deal with it." This is not, to my mind, better.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Seems to me you missed an option: Discussing. Whining and complaining are typified by a tone that is not cooperative. This contrasts with discussion, with is less about how much you don't like a thing, and more about finding solutions.

A mature bunch of player should be able to discuss the game with the DM. If either the players or the DM are not up to that challenge, then I suspect it isn't the sort of game I would like to be in.

Sorry, when I mentioned 'the same problems keep happening in spite of talking to the DM' I was assuming a failed discussion, but was not at all clear in that regard. Discussion is always the best choice, though sometimes it falls through.

Sarcasm... bothers some more than others. Some take it in stride, others it bothers to distraction. So I will accept that it is not a good solution unless both the participants enjoy such verbal jousting.

The Auld Grump

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Really, all the advice comes down to 'the player should talk to the DM out of game, when tempers aren't so high'. Followed by 'if talking the matter over doesn't help, then talk to the other players, and see if they are having the same problem', with 'if all else fails, leave' as the final choice. Which is the same advice I would give to a DM that is having problems with one of his/her players.

Not a huge surprise, but I am so used to looking at things from a GM's perspective that I wanted to see if it was different going the other way. I may have been hoping for a magic bullet, with which to slay the problem.

The Auld Grump

 

[pawsplay]

I think I'd almost rather have whining. Whining at least is immature; the points of sarcasm draw blood, but sarcasm has an elitism to it that makes it harder to respond to.

Sarcasm can take the form of correction, with the use of humor to soften a more direct criticism. Sarcasm can also be used to demonstrate an error in someone's viewpoint to them, rather than simply declaring their viewpoint to be wrong. Hence, sarcasm can be used in a very tactful way.