Problem DM - How Should a Player Handle It?

[jmucchiello]

There are a few options, the viability of most depend on specifics I would not be privy to at this time. Most of these suggestions require the co-operation of the other players.

Mature options:

1) Ultimatum: You spoke with the DM. Speak one more time, telling him it gets fixed or you take a walk mid game. Iy its not fixed, literally get up mid game, put on your coat, gather your things and take a walk. Do not announce it, just do it. If someone asks why your on your way out, say exactly why, and mention you are open to returning next game if thing dummy up.

This is not mature. It is barely borderline. My way or the highway is not a mature response to anything.

2) Offer to DM: Tell the DM you have an idea for a short game you want to run. Then run it, and do what you can to keep it going. If your a better DM, the other players ought to agree to keep your game going rather than return to the bad game.

This is mature.

Borderline:

Fire May Sue: This requires the participation / agreement of the other players. Find some in game pretext to break away from the Mary Sue. Announce that your character does not like her, and that she is fired. Promise to kill her if she shows up again. Follow through.

This is guaranteed to backfire every time. If a DMPC is truly a Mary Sue, she will not leave and she will not die. You cannot kill the DM's pet if he won't let you.

Be Inconvenient:

This is not mature at all. It is extremely passive aggressive. Just because you believe the DM is not holding up his end of the RPG social contract does not make okay for you not to follow the contract.

Less mature options:
Cheat:

Less mature? This is flagrantly disregarding the social contract of playing any game.

Play at a right Angle to the Game: ... You can make your own entertainment, and thwart any DM that is more interested than telling his stories than running a fair game.

Again passive aggression is never the answer.

END COMMUNICATION

Given the content of the post this is highly ironic. All of your examples involved not communicating.

 

[Raven Crowking]

This is not mature. It is barely borderline. My way or the highway is not a mature response to anything.

"Sorry, I'm not having fun in this game, and this is why. I'd like to keep playing, but these are the things I'd have to see addressed." is really a form of "my way or the highway" and is, I would say, mature.

Getting up and leaving in the middle of the game is not.

Indeed, the player who offered me that ultimatum wouldn't get a chance to act on it, as I would boot him or her on the spot if out-of-session, and soon after the session ended if not.

It would take something seriously disturbing or abusive to disrupt a game by either booting or leaving mid-session. I have no interest in playing with the sort of folks who view either as appropriate.

YMMV.


RC

 

[jmucchiello]

"Sorry, I'm not having fun in this game, and this is why. I'd like to keep playing, but these are the things I'd have to see addressed." is really a form of "my way or the highway" and is, I would say, mature.

"See addressed" is not "My way". There are many resolutions to "Things I have to see addressed" that do not require the DM to acquiesce to all of your "demands". My way or the highway leaves no room for a negotiated settlement. It's not "okay I've got 83% of my way so I'll just 17% leave." The cliche in question is binary and that's why I called it immature.

Getting up and leaving in the middle of the game is not.

In these examples, yes. But (playing Devil's advocate) there are cases when this is the mature thing to do, such as any use of physical violence.

 

[Raven Crowking]

In these examples, yes. But (playing Devil's advocate) there are cases when this is the mature thing to do, such as any use of physical violence.

Hence, "It would take something seriously disturbing or abusive to disrupt a game by either booting or leaving mid-session."


RC

 

[Rabelais]

I was that DM (in fairness, I think we all are or have been at one time or another).

Ooof, It was years before I got back on that particular horse. I realized that I was a railroader, I was miserable, and much happier as a player. Once I worked through my frustration as a GM though... I think I'm pretty ok now. Not brilliant, but pretty decent.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

....
This is guaranteed to backfire every time. If a DMPC is truly a Mary Sue, she will not leave and she will not die. You cannot kill the DM's pet if he won't let you.

hehe ... convince the DM to use the new improve LAVA rules... Mary Sue will *die*!


I too have been on both sides of the screen as poor DM and poor player. I think I got better due to the communication of freinds who were willing to stick through the learning curve and talk to me honestly.
But I agree with cougent, alot depends on the approach taken.
I once reacted poorly to a long term gambit by one of my players in a CP2020 game that was too successful and reflex ruled a nerf-bat to his successful use of the RAW. Later on we talked and scaled back the nerf to a reasonable HR that didn't wipe out my plotlines or his investment in that capability.

My suggestions are:
- Never interrupt the flow of the game, let the DM do that if needed.
- Approach the conversation understanding that there is a misunderstanding
- Attempt to work to improve the game for all involved.

If the DM proves to be intractable, either walk from the game after raising the issue with the group or continue to play within the paradigm the DM provides...and have fun at it!

{yes, I am serious about that. I have enjoyed quite a few really odd-ball sessions under 'poor' DMs. The most fresh example is a CP2020 game where my pre-generated character was a 13 year old tech-savant who got kidnapped with some other kids ...and another portion of the group rescued us... Yes. That was the plot line. 4 hours play time between the start of the game and getting rescued from the locked room and taken to a 'safe house' to wait for our parents to come pick us up. By then my 'rescuers' wanted to off my character }

But I digress....

Oh.. one last comment. If you are a player who has never DM'd... please please please. Check out how the other side feels before getting all frustrated over someones incapability to do something you haven't even tried.
Nothing gets under my skin faster than a player who thinks I suck but won't step up to the DMing plate or work with me.

 

[jmucchiello]

hehe ... convince the DM to use the new improve LAVA rules... Mary Sue will *die*!

No, she won't. Mary Sue's are more powerful than any rule system. Even ones as black and white as the lava rules. That's one among many reasons Mary Sue's are bad for the players.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

We sound dangerously similar... no offense intended!

In RL, I have spent 24 hours resurrecting a dead PC for a family friend who had all his wedding and baby pictures on it and corrupted windows and had no backups simply because he politely asked me to do it. In another case a family member essentially demanded that I "fix his computer" which he had infected with numerous viruses from "surfing the web" and that I do it right away and without loosing anything... that did not evoke the same response.

I will fully admit that I am all about the presentation. A player can state right in the middle of a game "Uh, I think you got that wrong." and I will say "You may be right, do we take a break and look it up now or do we fix it later?" Similarly if the initial report is [Dice flying across the room] "That call was S***!" then there will be no discussion and we will not fix anything, except he may be asked not to return. In between actions get in between responses.

My definition of whining is also more of the high nasal pitch, over exaggeration of syllables ["Oh man" from the cartoon Ben 10 but worse], and repeated insistence upon being correct in some other situation "Told you sooo..." This also crosses / meshes with just plain rudeness. I have an extremely low threshold for rudeness.
[I have never had a player throw dice in frustration, but have had the immediate visceral response... once]

Heh, that does sound awfully familiar, right down to the 'virus incident'.

As for 'firing Mary Sue' (mentioned above) I have fond memories of my own early (ca. 1977) DMPC... I smashed him with a rock! (The party always asked him for advice, secure in the knowledge that I would not steer them wrong - when I realized this I had him flip a coin, turn right instead of left, and killed him with the first available trap. I think I may have retconned that trap into existence just to kill him. It took the party a while to realize that I had really killed him off - it was finding bits of him leaking through the ceiling of the room below that finally convinced them. ) In some ways I think that was the game where I started maturing as a GM.

As to sarcasm, as I said, some have more difficulty with it than others - I never have any problem with it, but that is because I am a sarcastic bastiche in the first place.

The Auld Grump

 

[Orius]

I think I'd almost rather have whining. Whining at least is immature; the points of sarcasm draw blood, but sarcasm has an elitism to it that makes it harder to respond to.

That's why I like it...

But I'd also suggest that a player could offer to DM for a while, provided he or she actually enjoys DMing. If it's an inexperienced DM, then the DM might learn some new tricks.

I'd say an inexperience or unconfident DM might respond better to things like advice then the power-trip DM. There's a difference between being unskilled at DMs and abusing the screen.

 

[Orius]

Be Inconvenient: There are some rules that players and DM's steer away from because they are Nuclear. No one wants to have them used against them. So break out every one of those tricks. Grapple everything. Bust out the Spiked chain Frenzied Berzerker build you heard someone complain about. Magic item distribution unfair? Start using Sunder all the time. If its a high level game, open every fight with Mordenkainens Disjunction. Take a Sorcerer / Wizard build and use the Greater Invis + Fly + blasting spells. Use Evards Black Tentacles every chance you get. Every DM has certain preferences for combat, and if you know what your doing you can make every fight not fun for him. If there are magic item shops, steal from them. Scry everything. Use spells less than strategically, such as planting that fireball area of effect just a little too close to Mary Sue. Or dropping an Obscuring Mist spell on something and break Mary Sues line of sight. Or drop a wall of ice that puts Mary Sue alone with the Enemies.

That could be fun, if used carefully. Also, get some of the other disgruntled players on your side.

Less mature options:
Cheat: Start cheating flagrantly. Use potions you do not quit have any more, miscalculate attacks. Cast your only 9th level spell more times than you ought to. Use feats you do nt have. Announce an 19 when you roll a 9. Get the other dissatisfied players to do the same, and see how long it takes for your DM to try to counter things. Its hard to be upstaged by Mary Sue when you keep scoring critical hits every 4th attack.

I'd say no. This sort of thing could degenerate into a KotD style game rather quickly, since a bad DM who knows you're cheating could very well ramp things up even worse.