Problematic warblade maneuvers?
- Thread starter shmoo2
- Start date
Let's see how many post this manuever at the same time:
3rd level white raven tactics - can cause serious problems if used well in a group. In many ways this manuever is better than tims stands still, the 9th level diamond mind manuever (because it can give others 2 actions in 1 round -think mage dishing out 3-4 spells in the same round).
nerf 1 - this manuever can only be used on others.
nerf 2 - this is more drastic - it only lets them use actions they haven't already expended (so it's a good tactical manuever not a time warp).
the tiger claw manuevers that require a jump check (sudden leap, death from above, swooping dragon strike maybe some others) can be abused if the player gets a ring of jumping or even worse an improved ring of jumping (or heck the meriad of other magic items that boost your jump check) because the DC's become a joke.
- Haven't really thought about this one - but an easy fix is that only the "natural" skill check applies for purposes of the manuever.
[Edit] Also while I like the diamond mind school and think it's pretty balanced, under no circumstances should you let a player focusing on these manuevers get any items that magically add to concentration skill checks. [edit]
3rd level white raven tactics - can cause serious problems if used well in a group. In many ways this manuever is better than tims stands still, the 9th level diamond mind manuever (because it can give others 2 actions in 1 round -think mage dishing out 3-4 spells in the same round).
nerf 1 - this manuever can only be used on others.
nerf 2 - this is more drastic - it only lets them use actions they haven't already expended (so it's a good tactical manuever not a time warp).
the tiger claw manuevers that require a jump check (sudden leap, death from above, swooping dragon strike maybe some others) can be abused if the player gets a ring of jumping or even worse an improved ring of jumping (or heck the meriad of other magic items that boost your jump check) because the DC's become a joke.
- Haven't really thought about this one - but an easy fix is that only the "natural" skill check applies for purposes of the manuever.
[Edit] Also while I like the diamond mind school and think it's pretty balanced, under no circumstances should you let a player focusing on these manuevers get any items that magically add to concentration skill checks. [edit]
Last edited:
Nail
First Post
IMG there is a Warblade, currently 6th level.
So far, the manuevers that seem broken are Moment of Perfect Mind and the like. Insightful Strike (the manuever, not the class ability of Swordsages) might also give you pause.
In all casses, magic items that give skill bonuses (Concentration or Jump) should be made either LOTS more expensive, or banned outright.
So far, the manuevers that seem broken are Moment of Perfect Mind and the like. Insightful Strike (the manuever, not the class ability of Swordsages) might also give you pause.
In all casses, magic items that give skill bonuses (Concentration or Jump) should be made either LOTS more expensive, or banned outright.
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Yeah. White Raven Tactics + poor ruling about allies = broken. Just say WRTactics only applies to an ally, not yourself.
Iron Heart Surge has been ruled (by some) to be able to end any effect with a duration, not just to remove effects on the initiator. So... goodbye, anti-magic field.
IMHO, Iron Heart Surge should be ruled to only remove conditions from the initiator, or spells which have targeted the initiator, not spells which have an area including the initiator.
- - -
The only item in the SRD that grants a bonus to Concentration checks is in the Psionics section (one of the Third Eye items). It takes up an unpopular slot and gives a +10 -- too strong. Just ban that one item.
IMHO: Tiger Claw + Jump check items is not a problem. You are supposed to be able to make those checks. The Jump check is not a huge limiting factor on those maneuvers, and even with a super +30 Jump item, the effects aren't broken. Honestly, Ring slots are worth a lot -- the Ring of Jumping isn't broken. (TC is different from DM, since DM uses Concentration to make saves and set damage. TC merely uses Jump to deal fixed damage.)
Cheers, -- N
Iron Heart Surge has been ruled (by some) to be able to end any effect with a duration, not just to remove effects on the initiator. So... goodbye, anti-magic field.
IMHO, Iron Heart Surge should be ruled to only remove conditions from the initiator, or spells which have targeted the initiator, not spells which have an area including the initiator.- - -
The only item in the SRD that grants a bonus to Concentration checks is in the Psionics section (one of the Third Eye items). It takes up an unpopular slot and gives a +10 -- too strong. Just ban that one item.
IMHO: Tiger Claw + Jump check items is not a problem. You are supposed to be able to make those checks. The Jump check is not a huge limiting factor on those maneuvers, and even with a super +30 Jump item, the effects aren't broken. Honestly, Ring slots are worth a lot -- the Ring of Jumping isn't broken. (TC is different from DM, since DM uses Concentration to make saves and set damage. TC merely uses Jump to deal fixed damage.)
Cheers, -- N
Nifft
Penguin Herder
AH! Missed that one. Yep, that strike is pretty broken as written.Mort said:
DC should be flat 10 + level + Str bonus. Less disruptive to change the Strike than to remove a classic magic item and 1st level spell.
- - -
Which reminds me... War Master's Charge (White Raven, charge can auto-stun with no save). Broken IMHO.
Cheers, -- N
blargney the second
blargney the minute's son
We removed White Raven Tactics from our games because it's better than 3.0 haste.
Zurai
First Post
Wow, people around here have a pretty shallow definition of "broken".
The only broken maneuvers in the entire book are White Raven Tactics and Iron Heart Surge, and those are easy to house rule into non-brokenness.
WRT: Cannot affect yourself.
IHS: Is a mental action, can only remove effects that specifically target yourself (and only removes that effect from you, if it's a multi-target effect such as Mass Suggestion).
There. No more broken maneuvers.
The only broken maneuvers in the entire book are White Raven Tactics and Iron Heart Surge, and those are easy to house rule into non-brokenness.
WRT: Cannot affect yourself.
IHS: Is a mental action, can only remove effects that specifically target yourself (and only removes that effect from you, if it's a multi-target effect such as Mass Suggestion).
There. No more broken maneuvers.
Patlin
Explorer
I discuss Iron Heart Surge and Moment of Perfect Mind in my "Aura Party" thread, but to sum up our warblade has had them ready for 20+ hours of play and only used one of them, and that one once. Obviously, this is anecdotal, but at 6th through 8th level that's half her maneuvers dedicated to things that may not happen. That's a fairly high oportunity cost.
She uses White Raven Tactics and whatever her best strike happens to be at a given level all the time. Personally, I like White Raven Tactics. It's powerfull, certainly, but it's very team oriented. We definitely do not allow her to use it on herself, she usually targets whichever PC in its short range went most recently before her.
She uses White Raven Tactics and whatever her best strike happens to be at a given level all the time. Personally, I like White Raven Tactics. It's powerfull, certainly, but it's very team oriented. We definitely do not allow her to use it on herself, she usually targets whichever PC in its short range went most recently before her.
Last edited:
Similar Threads
