Problems with Greater Magic Weapon

[Lord Pendragon]

For any of you players out there who have to suffer through these antagonistic DMs, let me remind you that you can pick up a Ring of Counterspelling for a measly 4,000gp. Put a Dispel Magic in there (150gp at your local bazzar) and you are proof against the first targeted Dispel sent your way. If you are really paranoid, put a Ring of Counterspells with Greater Dispel on the other hand.

Of course, doing this makes the PC immune to his party's Dispel Magic as well... Now if he's charmed or dominated etc., his party's going to have a much harder time dispelling it...

 

[the Jester]

The pcs in my campaign have taken to GMW too... but that's okay.

It's important to keep in mind that once you cast it, you can't change it. So you make the 50 arrows +3 in the morning... doesn't help in melee. Or against things immune to piercing damage. And the wizard (or whoever) is losing a fireball for that- or a dispel.

Do you have similar problems with the cat's grace et. al. spells?

 

[Numion]

Jester, I don't have a problem with Cat's Grace, Endurance etc. just more power to my players if they use those.

But they'll never buy or use another Belt of Giant Strength. The party cleric casts on himself Twice empowered Bull's Strength on the morning, and that's up to +10 to STR. Way better than the Belt. They also trade spells, for example the sorc will lend the cleric an empowered endurance for a death ward. This is actually a good thing, IMHO.

Of course I use Dispels against them, and with some succes, but's there are two points in this:

1) Dispels don't kill anyone

2) Dispels usually affect only a few of the 8+ buffing spells

The Cleric they are up against is usually better of launching flame strikes than dispels.

 

[Darkness8Me]

Originally posted by EOL
As a player who uses the spell how often is too often for the DM to use dispel magic on you. Once every fourth session, once a session every combat. At what point would having dispel Magic take down your GMW get tiresome?

The character I have that uses greater magic weapon has been dispelled in almost every combat situation where the opposition was capable of doing so. I typically get a few shots in before my enemies realize the threat, but a single arrow that does a minimum of 15 points of damage usually grabs their attention. After that I kiss the spell goodbye unless they do not have the means to remove it.

 

[apsuman]

haven't read the whole thread, but my suggestiong is to the baddies the following feat:

Improved Disarm

That should take care of it.


g!

 

[EOL]

Jester, I don't have a problem with Cat's Grace, Endurance etc. just more power to my players if they use those.

But they'll never buy or use another Belt of Giant Strength. The party cleric casts on himself Twice empowered Bull's Strength on the morning, and that's up to +10 to STR. Way better than the Belt. They also trade spells, for example the sorc will lend the cleric an empowered endurance for a death ward. This is actually a good thing, IMHO.

Of course I use Dispels against them, and with some succes, but's there are two points in this:

1) Dispels don't kill anyone

2) Dispels usually affect only a few of the 8+ buffing spells

The Cleric they are up against is usually better of launching flame strikes than dispels.

Thanks for crystallizing some of the points I was raising. With the duration of most buffing spells being an hour per level there seems very little reason to buy or have physical stat enhancing items when spells like Bull's Strength and Cat's Grace last for so long. Toss in Empower and suddenly even with the dispel and duration danger it's worth the risk for a chance at a +10.

The point about dispels is a good one as well, by the time the party gets to 15th level, there's every possibility the the wizard they encounter is too busy casting Wail of the Banshee to worry about a targeted Dispel on the party fighter (which if the NPC is only 2 or 3 levels above the party would have slightly better than a 50% chance of succeeding in any event.) And if they decide to use an area dispel then they're only going to get one spell at most from each of the party members.

 

[Madfox]

But why should they go for an area dispel? It is much more efficient to go for a target dispel. Since a targetted dispel has got the chance to dispel all spells on the PCs it becomes a lot more effective. Especially when you target clerics and the fighting types who somehow tend to use boosting spells more often anyway.

What do you mean my empored bull's strength, magical vestmented shield, greater magic weapon hammer and resist element have all been dispelled?

 

[bret]

When fighting against spellcasters, people should remember that you can make a Spellcraft check to determine spells currently in effect.

Pretty easy to tell if someone is hyped on enhancers (DC 22 for Cat's Grace and such), so you know where to target the dispel. If you make GMW leave a tell-tale glow or something, it would also be easy to tell on a DC 23 or 24 check.

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

Just to push some buttons...

It is my proposition that the sword held by a fighter is not affected by a Dispel Magic targetting the fighter. In order to take the GMW off the sword, the enemy would have to target the sword. Greater Magic Weapon has "Target: One weapon", so to remove it you must target the weapon specifically.

Furthermore, if the sword is naturally +1, and is caught in an Area Dispel, it is immune to dispelling so the GMW is safe in this case as well.

Here are some excerpts from the spell description, arranged cleverly to support my point:

Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of the spell. The character makes a dispel check against the spell or against each ongoing spell currently in effect on the object or creature.
...
Area Dispel: The spell affects everything within a 30-foot radius.

For each creature who is the target of one or more spells, the character makes a dispel check against the spell with the highest caster level. If that fails, the character makes dispel checks against progressively weaker spells until the character dispels one spell (which discharges the dispel so far as that target is concerned) or fail all the character's checks. The creatures magic items are not affected.

For each object that is the target of one or more spells, the character makes dispel checks as with creatures. Magic items are not affected by area dispels.

The moral? Cast GMW on your +1 sword, rather than that rusty old masterwork and you'll be good to go!

 

[UofMDude]

When the rules for dispel magic state that "Magic items are not affected by area dispels" I think it refers to the fact that dispel magic, when targetted, can suppress the functioning of that magic item. I do not think it is meant to be interpreted as "any spell cast upon a magic item is immune to dispel magic (when cast as an area dispel)".

UofMDude