Problems with Greater Magic Weapon
- Thread starter EOL
- Start date
punishing PCs
Maybe I'm a little weird, but I would never punish PCs for using good tactics. Given the circumstances described, I certainly think that highly intelligent opponents would make use of dispel magic -- but they should do that anyway as soon as they realize they're facing either spellcasters or a magic-heavy opponent. Some posters here seem to be suggesting that the players should be "punished" with heavy-handed DM tactics until they cease relying on this tactic. I'm curious -- those of you who feel this way, do you do this for every successful tactic or strategy your PC's think of. It would be very tiresome to play in a game like that -- too much like DM vs. player for my tastes...
Maybe I'm a little weird, but I would never punish PCs for using good tactics. Given the circumstances described, I certainly think that highly intelligent opponents would make use of dispel magic -- but they should do that anyway as soon as they realize they're facing either spellcasters or a magic-heavy opponent. Some posters here seem to be suggesting that the players should be "punished" with heavy-handed DM tactics until they cease relying on this tactic. I'm curious -- those of you who feel this way, do you do this for every successful tactic or strategy your PC's think of. It would be very tiresome to play in a game like that -- too much like DM vs. player for my tastes...
I would think the number of creatures able to pull this off are few... my players are just waiting for someone to stand in a globe... all their bracers of armor, hastes, bull strengths etc etc are all down as well. barring very special circumstances a mage throwing that spell against opposition is suicidal.
SpikeyFreak said:
EOL
First Post
I think that as a DM I'm pretty lenient about what I let my players do and if they come up with a good tactic that's fine, but there quite obviously has to be some corresponding weakness to GMW or players are never going to want actual permenant enhancement, it's so much cheaper to buy the mage a pearl of power specifically for GMW.
Plus casting GMW every morning is not exactly great tactics, just as casting fireball in every combat would not be great tactics either. If I as the DM put them up against a variety of opponents some who dispel thier GMW, some who have Globe of Immunity, etc. and they are able to modify their tactics to meet each encouter instead of relying solely on GMW, those are good tactics. In essence it's the opposite I'm punishing them for bad tactics.
Plus casting GMW every morning is not exactly great tactics, just as casting fireball in every combat would not be great tactics either. If I as the DM put them up against a variety of opponents some who dispel thier GMW, some who have Globe of Immunity, etc. and they are able to modify their tactics to meet each encouter instead of relying solely on GMW, those are good tactics. In essence it's the opposite I'm punishing them for bad tactics.
Crothian
First Post
If you really want them to think about using it, put them in situations where is a disadvantage. Have encounters that require spells to overcome, not weapons. The loss of 4th level spells to GMW in the morning will be a majot hurt. If they use wands, ask them if the use the wands every morning. Then have days where no fighting happens and the charges are wasted. You can attack them during the night. Personally, tactically, night attacks are best. Dispelling is good, but it can be over done. Disarming works well. Have the party face off with opponents who use GMW.
EOL
First Post
I think the point a lot of people are missing is the addition to the equation of a pearl of power. At that point if the fighter (or fighter-type) is paying for it then there is no "lost spell" wands become unnessecary to a certain extent, and with the exception that GMW can be dispelled and the duration (which becomes less and less of a problem and not a problem at all if you add a level and extend it) there is no difference between it and an actual permanant enhancement to the weapon.
For any of you players out there who have to suffer through these antagonistic DMs, let me remind you that you can pick up a Ring of Counterspelling for a measly 4,000gp. Put a Dispel Magic in there (150gp at your local bazzar) and you are proof against the first targeted Dispel sent your way. If you are really paranoid, put a Ring of Counterspells with Greater Dispel on the other hand.
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
Bah!
This is too easy.
If the players rely on buff spells in the morning, they will be in a world of hurt in their spellcasters do not get a decent night's sleep.
Put them in a swamp or cavern where there are minor combats every couple hours. For two of three days in a row... Suddenly their tactics look extremely inefficient.
There is a lot of ways to hose these guys. An even simpler one is multiple combats in the same day, tossing the occasional Dispel Magic in there. Missing all those mid-level spell slots will make their tactical casting choices very, very tricky.
This is too easy.
If the players rely on buff spells in the morning, they will be in a world of hurt in their spellcasters do not get a decent night's sleep.
Put them in a swamp or cavern where there are minor combats every couple hours. For two of three days in a row... Suddenly their tactics look extremely inefficient.
There is a lot of ways to hose these guys. An even simpler one is multiple combats in the same day, tossing the occasional Dispel Magic in there. Missing all those mid-level spell slots will make their tactical casting choices very, very tricky.
My problem, isn't actually with player's having the spell...its with my NPC's having it.
High level NPC (15th level) Wizard, why wouldn't he use one of his 3rd level spells (he's got a bunch, and he's just sitting in his tower doing evil research), to give all of this patrols a few +5 arrows each...and the same evil wizard, while not risking himself at all, could certainly give a bunch of people +5 magic weapons, if he thought they'd encounter the party.
I think this sort of challenge is appropriate for a party of 8 11-13 level characters...what this winds up meaning is that the party w/ its +3 weapons run across a bunch of bad guy with better weapons than they have. And spells such as stoneskin, could be almost made worthless. I know this would peeve me as a player.
My solution (House Rule), limit Greater Magic Weapon to a maximum of +3, and introduce a new spell "True Magic Weapon" at 6th level (7th for Clerics), that goes up to +5. The evil mage might give up a number of 3rd level spells (or 4th's if he wanted them to last for 30 hours), but would be careful in aliquoting out his high level spells.
It also prevents the PC's from automatically having +5 arrows at 15th level, sure they can get the mage to part with some 3rd level spells, but how about a 6th?
High level NPC (15th level) Wizard, why wouldn't he use one of his 3rd level spells (he's got a bunch, and he's just sitting in his tower doing evil research), to give all of this patrols a few +5 arrows each...and the same evil wizard, while not risking himself at all, could certainly give a bunch of people +5 magic weapons, if he thought they'd encounter the party.
I think this sort of challenge is appropriate for a party of 8 11-13 level characters...what this winds up meaning is that the party w/ its +3 weapons run across a bunch of bad guy with better weapons than they have. And spells such as stoneskin, could be almost made worthless. I know this would peeve me as a player.
My solution (House Rule), limit Greater Magic Weapon to a maximum of +3, and introduce a new spell "True Magic Weapon" at 6th level (7th for Clerics), that goes up to +5. The evil mage might give up a number of 3rd level spells (or 4th's if he wanted them to last for 30 hours), but would be careful in aliquoting out his high level spells.
It also prevents the PC's from automatically having +5 arrows at 15th level, sure they can get the mage to part with some 3rd level spells, but how about a 6th?
EOL said:
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