D&D 5E Problems with Polymorph, True Polymorph, and Shapechange

[Hawk Diesel]

So I have been working, I think pretty successfully, to eliminate players needing the Monster Manual as a resource. I have adjusted Wildshape so you don't need the MM, I have changed the Summon and Conjure spells to use retainers rather than creatures from the MM, and any companion creatures (aside from familiars), such as Beast Master Ranger has been adjusted to use a retainer rather than anything contained in the MM.

Of course these are just house rules, but I think WotC is moving in the same general direction with their design philosophy. They are creating very specific stat blocks for new subclasses that include a companion creature, and their new summoning spells in Tasha's will also have an included stat block within the spell text.

Personally, I don't think the Monster Manual should be needed to fuel any player mechanics. Power creep becomes inevitable as more monsters get released through other adventures or source books, being prepared with the stat blocks of every potential monster you may need as a player becomes cumbersome, and looking through a resource like the Monster Manual can slow down the game when a player wants to consider the perfect stat block to use for the situation.

But while I have largely been successful in eliminating the need for players to use the MM (at least I think so), I have absolutely no clue how to adjust polymorph, true polymorph, or shapechange. I've pondered for hours, poured over message boards and reddit, and I can't think of a single way to adjust these spells. At the same time, I don't want to eliminate them because changing one's form using magic is just too integral to lose.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to reduce the reliance these spells place upon using the Monster Manual?

@Xeviat I have a feeling this is something you've considered before.

 

[dave2008]

Well, I have a few thoughts:

1. For one or more of those spells you could say the stats don't change, just the shape (and things like reach, possibly speed)
2. For one or more of those spells you could have the shape change to whatever, but the stat block changes to a predetermined statblock, possibly modified by level
3. For one or more of those spells you could have the shape change to whatever, but select from a couple broad premade stat block options included with the spell (like your retainer approach). This could possibly be adjusted by level.
4. For one or more of those spells you could have the shape change to whatever, but use a generic stat block that can be modified by a few choices (like air creature gets a fly speed, etc, or give them roles like 4e) and possibly level

 

[Prebata]

You could take a look at Pathfinder 1st edition and how they tried to solve the same question. Using several versions of beast shape and similiar spells for plants, dragons, elementals and so forth. A set amount of bonuses and a list of traits were used to 'build' the creature you polymorphed into.

 

[MNblockhead]

You could take a look at Pathfinder 1st edition and how they tried to solve the same question. Using several versions of beast shape and similiar spells for plants, dragons, elementals and so forth. A set amount of bonuses and a list of traits were used to 'build' the creature you polymorphed into.

That sounds both cool...and tedious. I would want the player to 'build' a number of creatures ahead of time and have all the stats at hand.

 

[dave2008]

That sounds both cool...and tedious. I would want the player to 'build' a number of creatures ahead of time and have all the stats at hand.

It could be a few template stat blocks that could then me modified slightly. So the stat block is in the spell and you can modify a few attributes (type of movement) as desired.

 

[Horwath]

I see no problem in needing monster manual for Summons.
Balance with those spells is another matter.

Simple fix for being cumbersome is:
If a caster does not have prepared stats for an animal or whatever is being summoned, he/she CANNOT summon it.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't see the MM being player required for summons and transformations being a problem. Especially if some basic forms are in the PHB.

The MM is not a DM only book. However like DMs, players should be expected to have the elements from it picked out and readied beforehand 75% of the time before battle and 99% of the time during.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Just download the 5E SRD and get a whole host of monster stats to use.

 

[amethal]

You could take a look at Pathfinder 1st edition and how they tried to solve the same question. Using several versions of beast shape and similar spells for plants, dragons, elementals and so forth. A set amount of bonuses and a list of traits were used to 'build' the creature you polymorphed into.

Except, of course, you also need to know what was written in the 8 paragraphs describing the "polymorph" subschool of spells.

In fairness, most of which says what you'd expect e.g. you gain the base speed and natural attacks of the creature.

However, I don't think you could avoid looking those up in the Monster Manual, unless the DM provides generic stats for "large cat", "medium bear" etc. in advance - and then you can guarantee the player will want to turn into something not specified. (Even the "short" list of animal aspects which Pathfinder's shifter class can use now has something like 30 entries.)

 

[Horwath]

3.5e PHB2 with druid wildshape was a step in the right direction.

Boost for STR and varios movement speeds plus few natural attacks and AC bonus.