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Professions and Casual Realism

The numbers were done in the OP - the fighter just doesn't have the skill points to cover the areas to the point of hitting the nominal DCs, *especially * as he or she has to go cross-class for some of them, which is something the Expert doesn't have to worry about.

I don't think this is the case. There are not that many skills the captain must be good at. Profession Sailor handles most tasks on a ship and would be good to have, but a high value is not needed, especially if the captain has a marine or press background. He isn't expected to do the work of a normal sailor anyway.

What he must do is plot a course (Knowledge Geography. You could rely on your navigator though, but not knowing where you are is quite embarrassing for a captain) and keep his crew in line (Diplomacy and/or leadership feat). For a pirate Appraisal is also nice to have, but a captain can outsource that too.
The most important skill, tactical ability, is hard to put into a skill as that one is usually played out,
So those are 2 or 3 relevant skills with another one being nice to have. With skill focus and not dumped Int and Char, equipment and aid from the rest of the crew you can get high enough that, with take 10, you can usually make DC 15 checks which is enough for most common tasks.
You won't be stellar of course, but that was never the question anyway. I personally have no problem with someone who devotes all his time to learning seamanship (expert) being a better captain than someone who mainly trains how to kill people with pointy instruments and seamanship second.

So even at just 2nd level, a fighter can be an average captain of a coastal or inland sea vessel. And considering the tech level of D&D, that is where most people are. A few more levels though and you can go on the ocean and reliably not get lost, if you have the ship for it.
 
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I didn't say he couldn't physically handle a ship. I said that the fighter would not be competitive with other captains easily available by the core rules for low level NPCs until the fighter is around mid-level.

Well, certainly this is true if the fighter invests no resources in being skillful. Your example of a fighter had only 2 skill points, which implies that the fighter is a non-human with Int 10. I don't have much sympathy for the position that a fighter has to be 7th level to be skillful if no resources are going to be put toward being skillful - not classes, not ability scores, nor feats.

The pirate also has to deal with managing relations with ports, fencing goods, and not getting himself in trouble with authorities or wealthy merchants. A captain whose only available answers to these difficulties is "kill it or sail the ship" is at a distinct disadvantage, unless the GM is softballing those areas.

You earlier sneered at my suggestion that the reutine affairs of running a ship were the campaign focus of a pirate campaign. Now, you are advancing that the captain has to be able to manage the business/economic end of the campaign as if in a normal campaign those weren't part and parcel of the handwaved away 'dead boring' chores of life - 'swabbing the deck' as you put them. Now all the sudden this isn't all 'dead boring'. A Captain whose only problems are 'kill it or sail the ship' is in no such difficulty. There will certainly be players out there who mean by 'I want to be a pirate', "I want to be good at killing things and sailing the ship." Picking a low skill martial class like Fighter and taking it as a straight class with no multiclassing is almost entirely signaling that is what is wanted. If it isn't signaling that, then you can't complain if you aren't as broadly skilled as someone who took resources that could have been invested in 'kill it' and invested them elsewhere instead.

As for defeating the equal level rival single handedly, surely the Expert classed pirate captain isn't the real rival of the PC(s) nor is it the real rival for the potential build. The real comparison here - unless we are using an improved Expert meant for PC's - is between Fighter and Rogue. It's not at all clear to me that a 10th level Rogue isn't choosing to be a sufficiently compotent martial combatant and a sufficiently skillful expert. One would think if all that was wanted was minimal competence of a low level expert, starting out as a 1st level rogue and then going straight fighter would do the job. In the same fashion, our hypothetical expert could dip for a few levels of fighter sometime before crossing swords at level 10. At the very least, our fighter could be human, have 14 intelligence, and invest in skill competancy through things like Cosmopolitan, Education, or even just Skill Focus (if we are going to use nothing outside of core). Rightly or wrongly, a pure fighter with no intelligence bonus is not meant by the system to be skillful outside of combat.

None of this however suggests that you can't be a 2nd level character who is a 'Pirate Captain', even in core. Even if you try to do an end run around the provisions for character creation by trying to build a skill monkey as a pure fighter with no investment in intelligence or skills, then it still doesn't imply you can't be a 'Pirate Captain'. It only implies that you are perhaps not an optimally built pirate captain if your desire is to be skillful and the challenges that the campaign intends to focus on are those that highlight the value of skillfulness.

This decision would be the equivalent of insisting in 1e that you wanted to be a pirate, but insisted on playing a Fighter instead of a class created specific to the archetype (in the 1e style) like Mariner or even Bandit even though that option was open to you, and then complaining that you didn't feel like a 'Pirate' when you played a Fighter because you didn't mechanically have any particular (much less heroic) nautical or skullduggery skills. Of course you don't; you decided to play a fighter.
 

You earlier sneered at my suggestion that the reutine affairs of running a ship were the campaign focus of a pirate campaign.

I don't think Umbran actually sneered at your suggestion, but I would say, that even if the routine affairs of running a ship is not the focus at the game table, the captain in question should still have skill ranks in the appropriate skill fields: Appraise, Profession (sailor), Diplomacy, Intimidation, and Sense Motive. Even if you never apply a skill check towards ships management at port, not having those skills is a detriment to fulfilling of being a captain of the ship.
 

I don't think Umbran actually sneered at your suggestion, but I would say, that even if the routine affairs of running a ship is not the focus at the game table, the captain in question should still have skill ranks in the appropriate skill fields: Appraise, Profession (sailor), Diplomacy, Intimidation, and Sense Motive. Even if you never apply a skill check towards ships management at port, not having those skills is a detriment to fulfilling of being a captain of the ship.

Ok, I generally agree. But if the core skill list is simply 5 skills then a human fighter with 14 Int is well positioned to begin his career as a ship's captain. Granted, a fighter won't be as skilled in the core skills of being a captain and this might not be an optimal way to get where you are going, but he's always going to be fittingly at the van of the battle and he's going to have ranks in skills. Again, I see no reason why a list of 5 required skills (I'd quibble that Knowledge (Geography) is more essential than Intimidate) prevents anyone from becoming a sea captain by 2nd level - even if we are confined to core.

I also see no reason why a human character couldn't play Rogue 1/Fighter N to pick up basic skills. I see no reason to be infatuated with fighter if it works against the concept. In fact, I'd expect something like Rogue 1, then Fighter 6, then Duelist 10 to be a pretty straight foward 'pirate captain' career path. And again, you can be a somewhat compotent ship's captain by 2nd level. Life as a captain need not begin at a high heroic level but neither are you slogging through levels waiting to be your concept. In fact, so long as we define 'crew' as 'the other PCs', you can be the captain at 1st level. And if the DM is willing to give you a boat as part of the conception/inception of the campaign, you can have a hirelings right from the start really. After all, in 1e AD&D it wasn't unusual to have a war dog, or a hired porter, or a torchbearer, or man-at-arms along with the party at 1st level.

If we are not confined to core, then traits like Cosmopolitan and Education (available by default in an official FR or Eberron setting), greatly ease the pain of going cross class and are easy pick ups for our would be fighter skill monkey.
 

I've created multiple NPCs that were Expert 3/Fighter 6, thus I'm not opposed to giving levels in NPC classes, plus character classes if appropriate, and if a game is starting at higher than 1st level, I wouldn't be opposed to a PC taking NPC class levels to qualify for a specific non-adventuring occupation prior to the start of adventuring life - though I don't know many players that would be willing to do that.

The last campaign I ran where one of the players owned a ship, the party hired a captain to run the ship, and relegated themselves to passengers on that ship, with a willingness to take on ship duty tasks as might be required - ship's doctor for a cleric, etc. The ship more or less served as both a means of transportation, and a base of operations (moreso of the latter.)
 

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