Proposal - Allow 3rd PC's

Phoenix8008

First Post
Yes, that would be a measurable standard that applies to all PC's equally. It all depends on how we want to define 'dedicated enough'. I'm fine with using total levels since there are already level based requirements built into having multiple PC's (i.e. the newest character having to be 2nd level or higher). I think saying both PC's have to be 2nd level or higher with a total of 6 or more levels between them isn't too bad of a limit.

Some see the 6 total levels as too high and some see it as a minimum. With the double XP in effect, I think it will quickly be a barrier easily passed by for most.
 

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Dunamin

First Post
I think saying both PC's have to be 2nd level or higher with a total of 6 or more levels between them isn't too bad of a limit.
Tentatively, that works for me. I just wish there had been more time for refinement on such an important proposal, seeing as it looks to get settled in about 4 hours or so. :p
 

renau1g

First Post
Well if you & 1 other judge drops a No vote in for now to hold it up until you're happy with a further level of refinement that would work.

One thing to note, your PC's are both only about 500 xp away from leveling up to 4/3 respectively so that's really only a few months away, which PHB3 is due out in approx. 1 month + 1 month after for approval of source = mid-April. I don't think it's too crazy that Woe might get the requisite XP as the last XP award was in November. Maybe if you asked the killer DM really nicely he could help you out :)
 

Dunamin

First Post
Well if you & 1 other judge drops a No vote in for now to hold it up until you're happy with a further level of refinement that would work.
Thanks Ren, but that’s ok. I think the votes started to fly too early (in perspective of the proposal’s impact), but that’s not important enough for me to hold things up if the majority don’t feel rushed. :)

One thing to note, your PC's are both only about 500 xp away from leveling up to 4/3 respectively so that's really only a few months away, which PHB3 is due out in approx. 1 month + 1 month after for approval of source = mid-April. I don't think it's too crazy that Woe might get the requisite XP as the last XP award was in November. Maybe if you asked the killer DM really nicely he could help you out :)
Actually, I’m in no hurry to make a 3rd PC myself, even though I expect to qualify soon (its dragonslaying season). My request for a more refined proposal is purely for the sake of..

puts on sleazy political hat​

...The People. :angel:
 


renau1g

First Post
Yes you are ;). Well you might be...that dragon's pretty insane!

oh, I think by now I'm also ready to vote

YES to the proposal of allowing 3rd PC's with the caveat that the player needs to have two PC's above 1st level and their combined level must be at least 6.

I would also like to amend my vote to match renau1g's: YES with the caveat that the player must have 2 characters/PCs above 2nd level, and their combined levels must total at least 6..

I vote Yes to this form of the proposal as well.

Now, which PHB3 class do I want to run here? Decisions, decisions... :)

With 3 yes votes and 0 no votes the proposal passes per the Charter rules at 11:21 am EST. That document will need to be updated with this new rule. I'll see if I can get to it later today.
 

covaithe

Explorer
Random thoughts, not necessarily leading to a conclusion.

I don't plan to start a 3rd PC any time soon. Too busy.

I have some sympathy for the idea that we should be using the creation of 2nd, 3rd, etc. PCs to encourage a wider level spread in L4W. My two PCs now are level 3 and 4; I kind of wish it was more like 2 and 7. I have no real idea how to implement that.

One of the problems here is that we find ourselves with a lot of adventure submissions for characters around level 1, and a shortage of level 1 characters. Making 3rd PCs is not a great solution for that specific problem. The reason we should be allowing 3rd PCs -- if indeed we should (I'm mostly convinced, but not totally) -- is because we want them (clearly we do) and we have the long-term capacity for them (not quite as clear).

That said, I don't think 3rd PCs will sink us. We'll get by. Worst case; some of the 3rd PCs will sit in the tavern for a while, drinking quietly. The first person who mentions 4th PCs, though, had better have at least one epic character to their name. Just sayin'. :)

The problem of a lack of low-level PCs to team up with newcomers, will come back again. I find myself thinking about this problem more often these days than about 3rd PCs. Solving it in a long-term sense would require some kind of incentive for players to retire high-level PCs and create low-level ones. That's a tough sell. I've got a couple of tentative ideas, but I'm not at all sure they'd work.

[sblock=Off topic: how to get players to give up levels]

People are reluctant to retire a level N character and create one at level N-M, because those M levels represent a substantial investment of time. Any set of rules that would incentivize players to give up that time investment, would have to reward them with something of comparable value.

Idea 1: Heirloom items. In Torchlight, if you retire a mid-to-high level character to create a new one, the new character gets effectively a free skill rank, plus one of the magic items from the old character. What if we did it so that if you create a new character by retiring a higher level one, you get one "heirloom" item that's the same level as the old character's highest level item, plus maybe an extra background or trained skill or something. Possibly even an extra feat. The heirloom item would not be considered part of your character's wealth, so you'd be significantly richer than other characters of your level, up until you got to around the same level as where you retired from.
Pros: Gives the new character a significant boost, without breaking the game (IMO).
Cons: Might not be enough of a boost to compensate players for the loss of level. Not repeatable; retiring a second time doesn't give you any real benefit, so it just postpones the problem again.

Idea 2: When you retire a character to create a new PC at level 1, you can transfer the xp you lost to one of your other characters. I could retire Ikni (3rd, 2250 xp) to bump Quagmire from 4th (3750) to 5th (5500+500 left over).
Pros: Strong incentive to retire and start over at level 1; people would probably actually do it if this were possible. Would really go a long ways towards encouraging a wide spread of levels. Repeatable; people could take advantage of this idea over and over again without "wasting" xp.
Cons: Some people could get a big (one-time) boost in xp. Encourages throwaway characters built just to feed xp to someone else. More character turnover ==> more character reviews to do.

The second idea frightens me more than a little, but I think it will take something like that to get people to start over at level 1 alongside new players.

Anyway, enough of that. This is horribly off-topic.
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