Proposal: Clearing up Cunning Sneak, before it causes to many problems.

[elecgraystone]

Shadow Walk - this I'm less sure of... seems cheezy, but I suppose by RAW you could. If a PC did that in my game there's be lots of dazing monsters or immobilize effects to keep'em from abusing it

Yep, as cheesy as it seems this works. The thing to do is take two fold pact and pick up fey pact. That teleport when the enemies dies works just fine for a hidden check. Also pick up ulilities that teleport.

To help with AoE's, pick up sehanine's boon. 1/2 damage taken on hits if the enemy can't see you and no damage on a miss.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Hey there.

Charina my 3rd PC is already operating as a cunning sneak rogue with approval from my DM. I dsicovered the damn book two weeks after I made a sniper rogue... Come on!

After this adventure I will use the one time reboot thingie to make the few changes required.

Anyway, I see cunning sneak as being easie as pie.

1-It makes Fleeting Ghost unnecessary! Yay.

2-Normally you need at least superior cover or superior concelament to become hidden. With cunning sneak you can get by with just normal cover or concealment if you moved at least 3 square.

Now, combined with shadow walk, it might be a little cheesy. Maybe. But then, warlock usually don't sneak all that well to start with so they will fail to beat the best perception of the field quite often. Waste of whatever sacrifice they made to get cunning sneak, if you ask me. And a rogue who blew feats to gain shadow walk probably deserve it anyway. Especially since with cunning sneak various powers he could probably stay hidden 80% of the fight anyway!

 

[elecgraystone]

The warlock/rogue combo only HAS to use 2 feats, one to pick up cunning sneak and one to pick up shadow walk. Not a huge investment.

As far as stealth, they need not be behind. Your dex in maxed, you pick a race that's +2, you take a background for a +2, you get items for + stealth. I made one up quick at 11th level and she had a +20 stealth without my optimizing it.

The only downside is the at will, encounter and daily you have to take from warlock. You need to max your dex(to 18 at start, nothing crazy like a 20), have enough int to shift 3 squares and boost your cha to use your warlock powers. If you can pick up the dragonmark that adds 1 to shifts and teleports, it's a LOT easier to work the numbers.

All in all, you give up a paragon class to be able to hide all the time. As Mal said, you could normally hide most of the time without it so it doesn't seem that cheesy in that light. It gets you pretty close to the old 3.5 shadowdancer and their hide in plain sight.

 

[Walking Dad]

... Especially since with cunning sneak various powers he could probably stay hidden 80% of the fight anyway!

Olly if there is enough cover in the area...

---

I think here is a little confusion because of some speaking about (paragon) multi-classing and the others about using the Hybrid rules.

 

[elecgraystone]

It's rare to have a fight in an empty space. You might have to limit your movements but I have yet to see a map that didn't have a corner, a pillar, bench ect to use for cover.

I think you are a bit confused Walking Dad. We haven't been talking about (paragon) multi-classing, we've been talking about the paragon hybrid option where you get to take your hybrid feat a second time.

 

[Walking Dad]

...I think you are a bit confused Walking Dad. We haven't been talking about (paragon) multi-classing, we've been talking about the paragon hybrid option where you get to take your hybrid feat a second time.

No, the OP of this idea (me), meant multi-classing (taking the Walker in Gloom feat, that requires paragon multi-classing), not the hybrid option

...

BTW: At paragon, can one multiclass into warlock and use paragon multiclassing for getting Shadow Walk for constant stealth?

 

[elecgraystone]

Oh yeah, there is a paragon multiclass feat for shadow walk. Hmmm...

I guess you could do that but you end up pretty much the same with paragon hybrid except multicless cost you 3 more feats. I guess I never thought of it since a 5 feat cost is WAY too steep for me when a 2 feat option is out there.

 

[Walking Dad]

You are right, but I think hybrids are to cheesy at the moment...

 

[renau1g]

I don't think they're cheesy as you have to give up a ton to get it in most cases, but there are some corner cases (like every aspect of the game) that can be exploited

 

[Walking Dad]

That sums it up. Either you loose to much, make it not worth to take, or their is a cheesy option. And they 'destroy' the combat role system.