4E Proposal: Item Rarity

Iron Sky

Procedurally Generated
We haven't been using item rarity, but it's been a rough consensus thing, no actual rule decision/proposal for it that I can find. Here's what I propose:

A. Ignore item rarity changes entirely. (All our DMs/judges are already doing this)
B. Remove item daily limits with the limitation that any item can only be used once per day. For example, no quiver of +1 frost swords or whatever so you can spam the daily power over and over. (Most DMs are already using this)
C. Optionally, should we put restriction B in play for items with encounter powers? I don't know if there are any exploitable encounter powers, but as characters are starting to hit paragon, the possibility of buying a pile of level 1 items just for their encounter/daily powers is getting closer to possibility.

Judges?
 

Someone

Visitor
As I see it using item rarity is not an option since we're using gold rewards for tiem spent in an adventure. With item rarity characters would end with a pile of gold they can't spend on anything remotely useful, so option A IMO admits very little discussion.

I agree there's the possiblity of abuse for encounter/daily powers. I'd suggest limiting to one use per slot each encounter (or ecounter powers) or day (for dailies) for non-consumables, with wondrous items and of-hand weapons/shield counting as slots.
 
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WEContact

Visitor
Proposal B is good, and C is easily rolled in. Wording could be something like "a specific item power can only be used once per day (for daily powers) or once per encounter (for encounter powers) no matter how many copies of that item you have. Characters who use a weapon or implement in each hand with the same enchantment may instead use that enchantment's power twice per encounter/day as appropriate."

The problem with A, ignoring rarity entirely, is that the designers have finally starting printing Rare items that are actually superior to other items, like the Weapon of Speed. I think that rarity should be used, but that access to items should still be unrestricted, with the exception that a PC can only have one rare item per tier. (Upgrades to that rare item would not count as an additional rare item here.)
 

Nebten

Visitor
I recommend staying away from "houserule" verbage as it will be prominatly forgotten/ignored. We don't need little pockets of houserules floating around. People are still confused about the free expertise debacle.

I say continue with status quo. We are doing it already. Out of the dozen games out there, I don't believe there has been any problems. If the person has access to those items, I say good for them. A little reward for some research.
 

WEContact

Visitor
I personally found unwritten consensus to ignore an official set of rulings a lot more confusing. That's why this proposal came about in the first place. As a newer player, I checked the House Rules, saw nothing regarding rarity, and had no reason not to believe that a hypothetical Uncommon item I might want to sell could be sold at 50% value instead of the 20% rate at which all items sold before rarity. I had no obvious way to know that L4W diverged from the written rules on this matter. Something minor that my DM said led me to ask.
 

covaithe

Visitor
Personally, I'm getting more and more fed up with WotC introducing mechanics that make it inconvenient to participate in 4e games without buying DDI. As such, I'm inclined to ignore the concept of rarity entirely.
 

Iron Sky

Procedurally Generated
@covaithe , I am proposing exactly that: ignore rarity, just make it official to avoid any confusion, especially for new players. Were you wanting to keep item daily limits as well then?

If we get three judges to make the status quo official, then I'll add it to the Charter and we can make it explicit instead of implicit.
 
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covaithe

Visitor
I don't feel strongly one way or the other about daily item power usage limits. If I understand correctly, that means I'm for either A or B in your first post. Does A mean leaving the daily item power usage limit in place? I don't think C is needed, at least not yet, but maybe you know something I don't.
 

Iron Sky

Procedurally Generated
Here's a hypothetical example of daily item abuse:

A high-paragon Artful Dodger Rogue buys a bag full of +1 Vanguard Daggers for which he paid as much as a low paragon item. Since he has the Fast Hands Thievery skill power, he can pretty much draw them for free. He's losing 2 or 3 to hit when he uses them, but since he's optimized and hits on a 2 most of the time anyway, he's not too worried. So, several times a combat, he charges and uses a dagger's daily power to give all his allies +1 to hit and +7 damage for a round (especially effective for the Twin-Strike Ranger and Blaster Mage who regularly make 3+ attack rolls a round).

A mid-high paragon character might get a dozen +1 Weapons of Speed to get an extra minor-action RBA every round for a whole combat.

As you say, it's not an issue yet, but if the potential for abuse is known and the issue is on the table now, why not address it now?

I like WEContact's idea so I'll restate the proposal in parts so Judges can vote on them separately:

A. Item rarity rules will not be used. In modern 4e terms, all magic items are Common, functioning as magic items have for the rest of the game's history.

B. Item daily power limits are removed, as they are in the most current 4e RAW rules.

C. A specific item power can only be used once per day (for daily powers) or once per encounter (for encounter powers) no matter how many copies of that item you have. Characters who use a weapon or implement in each hand with the same enchantment may instead use that enchantment's power twice per encounter/day as appropriate. (Taken verbatim from WEContact's post).
 

CaBaNa

Visitor
I'd like to add to C. "if an Artificer recharges a power, via Impart Energy that daily power can be used again that day."
 

H.M.Gimlord

Explorer
A. Item rarity rules will not be used. In modern 4e terms, all magic items are Common, functioning as magic items have for the rest of the game's history.

B. Item daily power limits are removed, as they are in the most current 4e RAW rules.

C. A specific item power can only be used once per day (for daily powers) or once per encounter (for encounter powers) no matter how many copies of that item you have. Characters who use a weapon or implement in each hand with the same enchantment may instead use that enchantment's power twice per encounter/day as appropriate. (Taken verbatim from WEContact's post).
I'm going ahead and voting YES on A. B. & C. Since this is the way I've been playing it in my adventures (both as a player and a DM) since the beginning. It makes for fun game play, and reduces the complexity associated with combat tracking.
 

H.M.Gimlord

Explorer
OOC: I'm OK with putting it in, but I always thought that would go without saying since that's what "Impart Energy" was designed to do. :)
 
You might want to consider a limit of rare items however. The assumption is that they will be much more powerful than other items of their level and that a given PC will acquire at most one such item per tier. Allowing PCs to freely buy rare items may skew things a bit much.
 

CaBaNa

Visitor
Trying to avoid "goes without saying".

D: characters may have 1 rare item per tier, 1 at Heroic, 2 at Paragon, 3 at Epic.
 

Iron Sky

Procedurally Generated
It's been more than 48 hours so A, B, and C have passed and added to the Charter. If people want further item-related houserules (such as the limit on rare items proposed) might as well keep using this thread.
 

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