Proposal: Remove the magic item penalty for new characters

[TwoHeadsBarking]

Don't forget the -1 to all check for threes milestone you get for a freshly ressurected character

So with this proposal:

Ressurected Character : -500 gp, -1 to hit, skill checks and saves until you have earned three milestone.

Make a new character : Nada.

You're absolutely right. The death penalty as written is too harsh. At least at low levels. I fully believe that anybody who wants to keep their old character will pay the tax, but I guess KenHood and nerdytenor are the only ones who can say for certain.

That being said, many characters have gotten to level 2 without dying. I believe most of them have, in fact. Maybe even all. How about we stop assuming that the original character died?

I'm going to put my cards on the table here. Come November 6th, unless someone blocks it, I fully plan on replacing Haruka the Warlock with Haruka the Assassin. She's an Infernal Pact Warlock currently adventuring with two defenders and two leaders, so I doubt she's going to die before then. I'm not exactly unbiased as to how this turns out. Which probably makes sense, given that I bothered to propose it in the first place.

I don't think people should be penalized when WotC releases a new class/race/whatever that better fits their character, or when they realize that they made several significant mistakes during character creation, or when they realize that a character they thought would be really fun just isn't turning out how they hoped.

 

[stonegod]

I don't think people should be penalized when WotC releases a new class/race/whatever that better fits their character, or when they realize that they made several significant mistakes during character creation, or when they realize that a character they thought would be really fun just isn't turning out how they hoped.

That case, however, fits the "magical onetime overhaul" I believe (though that class changes might be banned; need to double check).

The penalty for swapping/dead characters is inherited from 3.5 LEW with the purpose of keeping folks from switching characters too often. The idea is that continuity would be hurt if people just shed characters like dirty laundry. I don't recall that ever happening in LEW nor has it seemed to happen here. I think it is something that should be discouraged, but it could be handled at the judge/approval level (if a note is made somewhere that too many such changes is frowned upon).

However, we also should (in my mind) encourage folks to stay with extant PCs than make new ones generally. If there is no penalty for retirement/leaving a character dead, there is less incentive to rez dead characters. So either we keep some sort of penalty or remove it from rezzing (which I'm not happy with).

 

[TwoHeadsBarking]

The overhaul does not allow change in race, class, or concept.

Does this mean that someone who does retire a level 2 character should leave a note on their character sheet that they're supposed to be 680 gold behind the expected wealth?

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

The overhaul does not allow change in race, class, or concept.

A mere few days ago, a player asked to be allowed to change his race during the overhaul in a special proposition and it was accepted.

 

[H.M.Gimlord]

Perhaps the change should be dependent on the release of new character classes or races? Just an idea. I'd like to do something about this. Mikara has been at level 1 for nigh on 8 months now (*ehem, how 'bout that ER Joe?) and I imagine that if she ever did make it past level 2 and died/retired, starting over at level 1 with a different character would be a drag, especially given the environment in the hanged man at this time (it's actually drifted off to page 2 in the table of contents).

 

[TwoHeadsBarking]

A mere few days ago, a player asked to be allowed to change his race during the overhaul in a special proposition and it was accepted.

I thought we wanted to avoid one-time proposals like this? If I'm wrong, then fine, I'm not as interested in the outcome of this, although I still think the penalty is too much. I've been convinced that negating it entirely could be a problem too, but maybe it could be reduced to a reasonable level.

I'm just a little confused, because back in this thread it sounded like the goal wasn't to have level 2 characters be paupers.

Therefore I propose that a level 2 character starts with:

Level 3 item (Level +1) and 140 gp.

...

---

This is without accounting for any penalty you may want to add for someone who retire at one level and start at the same.

For those I recommend reducing the value of the starting items by one level.

I have a feelling that we'll see a lot of retirement at level 2, when people play a character for a while and it doesn't quite work out how they thought it would, but they stick it out to 2 so as to get something for the time spent. I think that's reasonable, but, as you say, the starting wealth is out of line at level 2. I think we always knew it would be; it was just one of those things we were going to fix later rather than letting it hold up the start.

Anyway, what about using the expected wealth by level that we've been talking about in other recent threads (e.g. Time Gold) as a baseline? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if we took the average expected net worth of a PC who has adventured to level 2 and gotten 1/5 of the standard 10 treasure packets, took off, say, 20% as a "retirement fee", and used that number as the starting wealth at level 2? No stipulation as to what you have to spend it on; I don't think it's fair to require a level 3 item when there might not be any L3 items that character would be interested in. IMO the character should get the initial 100g from level 1 starting as well, but have to pay for mundane items.

I think the root of the problem is that the previous proposal didn't address the retirement fee, so we're stuck using the old one. When new characters got a bunch of items, the fee was reasonable. Now it is not.

 

[renau1g]

Also, with Murphy, I was planning to retire him, I really wasn't digging the jerk-level of him and was hoping to try a PHB2 class out.

 

[Ozymandias79]

so you aren't gonna redo murphy as an changeling assassin?

 

[renau1g]

so you aren't gonna redo murphy as an changeling assassin?

I was thinking about it, but I can't seem to wrap my head around the assassin class... it doesn't seem very good to me and I am unsure how to play it. My first thought when I heard about it was that (and if he dies a revenant...)
Maybe when Menace ends I'll be able to figure it out.

 

[Kalidrev]

R1: I have played the Assassin a few times now in RL games, so if you want some tips/tricks/advice let me know ^_^ (Note I only have played as the NightStalker build, not the Bleak Disciple build)