Proposal: Retraining for New Material

[covaithe]

Ok, that sounds pretty good. I'll point out again, though, that the PHB retraining only allows you to retrain one power, OR one feat, OR one skill. Basically, you get to retrain one thing total, instead of up to three things.

That said, I think with the slow nature of PbP that we could change it to allowing one change in each of the three categories every level.

Huh, I totally missed that. I thought it already allowed changing all three. And I agree that given the slow pace of PbP we change it to allow all three.

For #4, would you say that has to get a nod of approval from the judges, or can people just go ahead with it?

On reflection, I think that it should need judge approval. That is, the resulting character sheet would need to be approved as if it were a level up, and the character couldn't be awarded XP until the approvals were in. I started to type up a list of conditions like "If they're on adventure, then they just need DM's approval. If they're between adventures, they need judge approval, except on sundays when the wind is from the southeast", but screw it; it's more work to think about and make rules to cover all the permutations than it would be simply to check over the changes.

If this seems like it's adding too much to the judge workload, then we could just say that you only get to do option 4 when you're leveling up to level 2.

I think changing classes would be OK, but only in rare cases where the new class exactly fits the kind of character the player was trying to create earlier, probably through multiclassing. In any case, if class changes were allowed, I think it would need special judge approval, and only be allowed very, very rarely.

I'm very reluctant to put the judges (and myself) in the position of having to say no to someone based only on a personal feeling of whether or not the change is thematically appropriate. Also, what happens when the judges disagree? Do we have some kind of voting mechanism? Is it a full-on proposal?

Actually, come to think of it, there's no reason you couldn't make a proposal to allow a one-time class or race change for yourself, or any other change for that matter. I could make a proposal right now that Quagmire be immediately advanced to level 25. I expect it would get voted down rather quickly, but the mechanism exists.

 

[KenHood]

I don't like the idea of a class or race change. You might as well retire the old character and start a new one. That's basically getting a new character for free.

 

[Don Incognito]

I cannot say "no" to changing classes loudly enough. There is a system for retiring characters and even a system for a second character. If that fighter isn't all you thought he was going to be, retire him and crank out a new one.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

Haha, fair enough, everyone. Now that I think about it a bit more, it doesn't seem appropriate. No class changing, then. If it were allowed, I'd like it to be rare, but that's hard to do without putting the judges in the position of, as covaithe said, having to say 'no' to people based on personal feelings. I don't want to be in that position, either.

I'm not sure where I stand on the overhauling thing though. I'm in favour of it, it's just how to check it. I'm tempted to say they need to be re-approved, because there's a good possibility that it's pretty much a different character. But as you said, it increases judge workload.

On the topic, though, would we allow ability score adjustments as part of the overhaul? I'm tempted to say yes, but that one's a slippery slope. Perhaps put a limit on how many points (as in, point-buy points) you can shift around? For example, you can change your ability scores, but only 5 points total (a max of 5 total points subtracted, then added elsewhere). Just throwing the idea out there.

 

[CaBaNa]

ability score adjustment could play for or against continuity, the fighter getting stronger but becoming less intelligent (wow what a blow to the head), the wizard losing his health but gaining intelligence (i.e. Raistlin), however it could play the complete opposite.

Keeping track may be difficult as well.

I'm leery on it.

Actually this whole concept has gotten quite intricate as the discussion has gone on.

Something simple and straightforward would probably put less workload on judges, and less strain on players who want to use the system.

I say the same I said earlier with additions added from some of the discussion.

"When you level you may;

Retrain one feat,
Retrain one skill,
and
Retrain three powers from the same source, or two from separate sources."

In addition, you may exchange your class feature for one not available when your character was created.

If you want to adjust ability scores, race, class, simply retire and create a new character.

 

[covaithe]

If by "overhaul" you mean the option 4, pre-level-2 overhaul, then I'd be fine with allowing ability score adjustments. I can't tell you how many times (mostly because I haven't bothered to count, but it's more than two, and at least one of those was me) I've seen people fresh from 3.5 make a wizard with high dex and low con, only find out that dex is nearly useless to a wizard in 4e.

 

[KenHood]

I did the same thing with my wizard, but I did want the high Dex for the Thievery skill. (Probably not the brightest choice, but it does fit the character's concept.)

 

[Lord Sessadore]

Yeah, that and thinking that 16's are still exceptional, when they're actually just sufficient now.

I suppose that if they can't change their class & race that their scores won't change much, unless they're in one of the classes with two attack abilities and change which path they want.

 

[CaBaNa]

"When you level you may;

Retrain one feat,
Retrain one skill,
and
Retrain three powers from the same source, or two from separate sources."

In addition, you may exchange your class feature for one not available when your character was created.

Once before approval for second level a character may retrain ability scores.

What say you?

 

[Lord Sessadore]

I personally prefer covaithe's earlier suggestion, just specifying that ability scores can also be changed with option 4.

Cabana, what do you mean by "different sources"? Do you mean different books, or different power sources (Arcane, Martial, etc...)? I'm assuming the former.

I have to say I most prefer covaithe's version, where you can train one additional power/feat if it's from a source approved since your last level. If we go more than that (like your suggestion of 3 powers), I think we might as well just remove number restrictions.

Of course, that's just my opinion.