[PROPOSAL] The non-negative min-maxer: "Tweaker"

[Dark Jezter]

Nameless beat me to it. "Tweaker" is already a term used to describe meth addicts.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Tweaker (New term to describe the non-negative min-maxer)
The Tweaker is a player who does the same "mechanical" min-maxing as the min-maxer, but takes into account the "play-style" of fellow players and DM. In addition, the Tweaker is interested in other aspects of the game beyond their "min-max" focus. They do not have a disruptive attitude beyond that of an "average" gamer and are "group-oriented" when playing a "group" game.

Aside from the Meth-addict association of the name already mentioned, I must say this definition is a good one. (Heck, I think I might fit that category... Damn it all...)

 

[Richards]

After having watched last week's episode of "Arrested Development" (the extra one that was on Wednesday instead of the normal Sunday night timeslot), the term "tweaker" immediately brought to mind the image of the incarcerated father (star of his own "Caged Wisdom" video series) tweaking the nipples of the government mole assigned to his case through a chain link fence.

As a result, I don't think I'll be able to use the term "tweaker" without smirking. (And as a side comment, check out "Arrested Development" tonight on Fox-TV if you haven't done so already - it's got a very dry sense of humor.)

Johnathan

 

[dreaded_beast]

I don't know if it's really well-known, but "tweaker" is already a term for a type of drug user, specifically someone who uses amphetamines. So calling a min-maxer a tweaker kind of associates them with something a little worse than making powerful characters...

Heh...well, yes, there is that.

Any suggestions for a more appropriate name?

Tweaker is just what I came up with from the top-of-my-head, so I'm sure someone out there in ENWorld can come up with a better name.

 

[Ottergame]

I don't know if it's really well-known, but "tweaker" is already a term for a type of drug user, specifically someone who uses amphetamines. So calling a min-maxer a tweaker kind of associates them with something a little worse than making powerful characters...

Every word ever uttered is also a slang word for sex and/or drugs. You can't carefully pick your words just because one word applies to a few morons out there.

 

[Ottergame]

Here's what I propose.

Munchkin applies to the most disruptive of gamers, taking power gaming and min/maxing to the hilt, creating characters who horde the spotlight and are good at everything possible, stuffing the other gamers into irrelevance (or closest thing to it). (If playing a cleric, they will make sure they can fight as well as the fighter, do as much magic damage as the wizard, will be as hard to hit as the monk, and will be as hard to find as the rogue, in fact, the only area which they will likely be weak in is in the actual healing of their group mates.)

Power gamer is someone who is maxed out in some combat related way, to the point of disrupting the play and actions of other gamers, weither intentional or not. They dislike and try to eliminate all flaws and weaknesses. (If they play a fighter, they will do everything to bump up their poor saves and make sure they have immunties to a lot of magic, and they make sure to have every benefical feat and item that lets them do more damage.) They do this regardless (or disregarding) of character background, if they bothered to think of any.

Min/maxer is someone who focuses their character heavily into being good at one thing, and who generally doesn't disrupt another gamers play unless they are competiting to be the best in an identical area. They will settle for weaknesses in their character as long as it doesn't affect their goal. (If they play a wizard, they will settle for a few magic items to boost up their AC, they generally won't spend the first few rounds in every combat buffing themselves up) They make some attempt to link their background to their abilities.

A tweaker is a role playing min/maxer, who focus their characters abilites to max out their potential in areas that they feel devolps their character. They can live with weaknesses, but generally try to plug up and huge holes in defenses. Their play style may or may not disrupt another player, but this should be mostly due to how they play, not how powerful their characters may be. (If playing a bard, they might max out their bardic knowledge checks and funnel a lot of their abilities into skill checks, but will settle for simple weapons and armor, taking a few magical items to bump up their AC if it's to low.)

 

[Dark Jezter]

Here's what I propose.

Munchkin applies to the most disruptive of gamers, taking power gaming and min/maxing to the hilt, creating characters who horde the spotlight and are good at everything possible, stuffing the other gamers into irrelevance (or closest thing to it). (If playing a cleric, they will make sure they can fight as well as the fighter, do as much magic damage as the wizard, will be as hard to hit as the monk, and will be as hard to find as the rogue, in fact, the only area which they will likely be weak in is in the actual healing of their group mates.)

Power gamer is someone who is maxed out in some combat related way, to the point of disrupting the play and actions of other gamers, weither intentional or not. They dislike and try to eliminate all flaws and weaknesses. (If they play a fighter, they will do everything to bump up their poor saves and make sure they have immunties to a lot of magic, and they make sure to have every benefical feat and item that lets them do more damage.) They do this regardless (or disregarding) of character background, if they bothered to think of any.

Min/maxer is someone who focuses their character heavily into being good at one thing, and who generally doesn't disrupt another gamers play unless they are competiting to be the best in an identical area. They will settle for weaknesses in their character as long as it doesn't affect their goal. (If they play a wizard, they will settle for a few magic items to boost up their AC, they generally won't spend the first few rounds in every combat buffing themselves up) They make some attempt to link their background to their abilities.

A tweaker is a role playing min/maxer, who focus their characters abilites to max out their potential in areas that they feel devolps their character. They can live with weaknesses, but generally try to plug up and huge holes in defenses. Their play style may or may not disrupt another player, but this should be mostly due to how they play, not how powerful their characters may be. (If playing a bard, they might max out their bardic knowledge checks and funnel a lot of their abilities into skill checks, but will settle for simple weapons and armor, taking a few magical items to bump up their AC if it's to low.)

You forgot Drama Queens.

Drama Queens are players who write 10 pages of backstory for thier character. Their character is usually angsty and brooding, with some kind of tragedy in their past that they don't like to talk about. Drama Queens will often create intentionally weak characters to spite the "munchkins" and "min/maxers" that they hate so badly. Drama Queens get irritated by anybody who dosen't act in-character, and they can get downright pissed if another player cracks a joke during a moment that is supposed to be dramatic. Drama Queens don't like it when their character isn't the focus of the story, and will often try to steal the spotlight from other players if the current story arc dosen't revolve around them.

 

[nameless]

Every word ever uttered is also a slang word for sex and/or drugs. You can't carefully pick your words just because one word applies to a few morons out there.

That's unfair. Sure, a lot of slang gets passed around and mere inflection can turn a harmless word into something sinister. This example is a word that doesn't really have any meaning except for the "slang" version. The word isn't exactly a pejorative, but I think it's very insensitive to just brush all those troubled people aside and pretend they don't exist.

To make an example that might strike closer to this community, what if the term "roleplayer" stood for the "sexual fetish" meaning instead of the "gamer" meaning that we would use? Wouldn't that make a lot of people a but uncomfortable? Labels are powerful, why can't we just pick one that isn't already loaded?

I propose "optimizer" as a more neutral term.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

There was actually a debate about this on the Min/Max board at Wizards' about a year or so ago. I don't know how the issue was resolved, but the proposed terms were theoretical min/max for taking the numbers as far as the rules allowed and practical min/max for taking the numbers as far as the role-playing environment allowed ("practical" was originally "ethical", but some folks thought that this implied that theoretical was also "un-ethical" and made a big stink about it).

 

[ph0rk]

1. Focuses mainly on areas of the game that deal with their "min-max" focus and have a disruptive attitude when that focus is not present.
2. Mainly combat oriented, with little desire to "role-play" beyond their "min-max" focus.
3. Tendency to always want to "outshine" fellow players to point of causing fellow players to feel "useless".
4. Sometimes a difference in "play-style" between fellow players and DMs is the cause for the disparity.

One minor point of contention: One can act the same way with a skill or skill group, like hide/move silently/sleight of hand (does anyone really need an explaination of this?)

It can be just as disruptive, if not more, when a rogueish character wanders off to showcase their moneymaking skills, a bard tries to suck up half an hour of real time -alone- singing in a tavern, and so on. In other words, solo play with an audience (the other players).

perhaps a term like "spotlight hog" or something would be a better fit?