Proposal: Unique familiar for Ts'iri

[CaBaNa]

sweet counter proposal Kalidrev! (And for the record; totally rooting for your proposal )

My first argument for my proposal is the independent familiar.

They can move a mile or more from their master, and some even have bonus' like "when using stealth roll twice take best."

Sending the independent familiar back to town to order supplies or deliver messages is now possible, sneaking into the castle to tell the princess when to escape is now possible, all those chatty actions of independence that are of superior advantage, open to explore.

With a "passive only" speaking familiar, it relegates the speech to more of a fluff characteristic, and less a mechanical benefit.

 

[renau1g]

I don't like them speaking in active mode for a variety of reasons. It becomes signifiicatnly more powerful if the PC can send the raven (or imp or whatever) into places it couldn't normally go with full access to communication abilities. I think the passive mode ability to speak is fine, but this grants too much unless the DM takes over the familiar as it's not the PC, but rather an NPC.

 

[elecgraystone]

I see several issues with that Kalidrev.

#1 "can't speak in passive mode because it's simply a spirit that is only in known existence to its master" This can't be since one of the examples of passive mode it the familiar sitting on your shoulder and a second is others being able to see it's eyes from the fold of your robe. Both clearly show that others can see it in these cases.

Secondly, even if the familiar 'doesn't have vocal cords', what stops it from speaking? Intelligent magic items manage just fine without them don't they? What would stop your 'magic' tattoo or statue from speaking? (Two other examples given of passive mode)

#2 Speaking at a range is what Ravens/Parrots do. Letting everyone do it makes these familiars much less appealing.

#3 Speaking at a range is a pretty big bonus in some cases. Your familiar can pass messages into places you couldn't. With a good bluff skill you might even be able to make people think someone else talked creating off kinds of confusion. Is the guard going to think the cat cursed him out or the other guard?

 

[JoeNotCharles]

I think there's too much variation in familiars, and especially how you fluff active vs. passive mode, to rule either way. I'd leave it as-is, and if anyone else wants a talking familiar they can do the same thing Ts'iri did.

 

[Kalidrev]

You make some good points ElecGrayStone! Things I obviously had not thought of!

#1 I guess, as JNC said, is more of a fluff issue, but...

#2 is definitely a mechanical issue, and you're right, it WOULD make the parrot/raven less appealing if not entirely negated.

#3 The only thing I was really thinking of is the fact that the passive mode wasn't in a physical form, and that while in a physical form, it can be "killed". Thus there was risk in sending your active mode familiar away from you to talk to someone. I guess I'm just not all that informed on the familiar thing, as I was thinking of the 3.5 familiars that actually get you hurt if your familiars die. If you have a familiar in Passive Mode, can it move away from you, or is it stuck being "in your square"? If so, I can see why the active mode speaking would be an advantage to all familiars.

 

[covaithe]

I think there's too much variation in familiars, and especially how you fluff active vs. passive mode, to rule either way. I'd leave it as-is, and if anyone else wants a talking familiar they can do the same thing Ts'iri did.

+1

(These parentheses intentionally left empty.)

 

[elecgraystone]

Yeah Kalidrev, I wracked my brain and read over the material several time before I made my proposal. Before this I hadn't really read over the familiar section either.

#1 Yep. it's all fluff.

#2 The only thing raven/parrots would have is the master being able to talk through them while other familiar would have to go back and forth to hold a conversation. So it wouldn't completely negate their use.

#3 Passive mode familiars as stuck in your space. To move out it must go into active mode (although it COULD stay in your space).

 

[elecgraystone]

Yes as well.

Woot! As of 11:10 today I have my new familiar! Thanks guys!