Proposal -- YAFDHR (Yet Another Falling Damage House Rule)

Then, in keeping with the heoic fantasy (and to satisfy whiny players), there should be a Reflex save for half the Con damage. So, the freaky fantasy heroes can fall "unlikely" distances while SURVIVING, but they still limp away. AND there is a built in limit to that survivablility, i.e. when half the damage is more than your Con, your dead anyway.
Not just heroic fantasy - there are documented cases (rare, but still) of people who have fallen 10, 15, 20K feet and survived. In one notable instance, a gunner (Nicholas Alkemade, IIRC) jumped from a plane in WWII after it had gotten hit and was on fire. The plane was at ~25,000 feet; he landed in a pine forest (with a lot of snow) and walked away with a sprained ankle.

Actually, no. You're thinking of falling speed in a vacuum. Smaller creatures fall more slowly due to wind resistance, which is a function of the ratio between surface area and mass.
Jeff's right. Terminal velocity is the same for all falling bodies, but a smaller creature will take longer to get there.
 

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Jeff/kerrick: Regarding rate of fall, granted but I was referring to practical falling scenarios, and as Ashtagon pointed out, the difference is negligible at the distance we are discussing. I barely remember the science behind all this, just the main lessons (i.e. things basically fall at 1g).

Kerrick: I know about the amazing falls, and that contributes to my personal "buy in" to the half damage thing. But I consider those scenarios "crazy and heroic" in our own world. Cause the rest of us commoners just go SPLAT-KRUNCH!!!!

PS-Kerrick, I just read your blog post about Phoenix...is that your project? Cause I keep waiting for more/am interested in the "final product". I'm preparing to do essentially the same thing with my group as we all poo-pooed 4E.
 

And the wind resistance at the speeds that a person might reach at the end of a typically survivable fall (up to 100 feet) are not significant enough to cause much difference in final velocity.
That a person might reach, yes. That a cat might reach, no. That a flying squirrel might reach, even more no. And, going the other way, that an ogre might meet, also no.

Thus a "person" (i.e., Medium creature) is the baseline.
 

Jeff/kerrick: Regarding rate of fall, granted but I was referring to practical falling scenarios, and as Ashtagon pointed out, the difference is negligible at the distance we are discussing. I barely remember the science behind all this, just the main lessons (i.e. things basically fall at 1g).
Yeah, in the vast majority of scenarios (i.e., unless you're involved in aerial combat), there's no real difference.

Kerrick: I know about the amazing falls, and that contributes to my personal "buy in" to the half damage thing. But I consider those scenarios "crazy and heroic" in our own world. Cause the rest of us commoners just go SPLAT-KRUNCH!!!!
:lol:


PS-Kerrick, I just read your blog post about Phoenix...is that your project? Cause I keep waiting for more/am interested in the "final product". I'm preparing to do essentially the same thing with my group as we all poo-pooed 4E.
It is. Check the link in my sig - that's got several files I've posted for review/testing, more information on Phoenix, and more design diary entries (which I've started crossposting here to gain more visibility).

And speaking of aerial combat... here's an excerpt of those rules I wrote awhile back, regarding falling (you can read the whole thing here):

[sblock]
Falling is the single greatest threat to an airborne creature, especially one without the ability to fly on its own. Under rare circumstances, a falling creature can land in an area that might break its fall, to the point where it suffers little to no injury. Such circumstances are ultimately up to the DM, but can provide a way to save unlucky PCs who fell through no fault of their own – bad die rolls, bad luck, etc., or to provide a warning to incautious players.

Contrary to popular belief, water will not break a fall – water has surface tension and does not compress like normal soil (the ground has a certain "give", whereas water doesn't), so falling onto water from a great enough height is just like falling onto stone. Even if a falling creature does somehow survive a fall into water from a great height, he still has to contend with drowning.

Trees are the best way to slow/break a fall – conifers (pines, firs, etc.) are the best among these, because they usually grow close together, and their branches point mostly downward, which means a falling body won't get caught on them. Deep snow is, obviously, also a good way to break a fall, as are thick bushes/brush, or mud (swamps), as opposed to water. Trees, brush, snow, etc. can reduce the damage from a fall by up to 90% (DM's discretion as to degree).

A falling flying creature requires a certain amount of space to recover; once it gets too close to the ground, however, it loses the chance to pull out of its fall, and it hits the ground. The table below shows the minimum distance a creature of a given size must be from the ground to be able to pull out of a fall or dive without actually hitting the ground.

Code:
Size	Min. Dist.
Tiny and below	5 ft.
Small	10 ft.
Medium	15 ft.
Large	20 ft.
Huge	25 ft.
Gargantuan	30 ft.
Colossal	35 ft.

Even if a creature is within the minimum distance, it can still attempt a DC 20 Reflex save to slow its fall slightly, taking less damage. The DC remains the same; if the save is successful, the creature takes 2d6 fewer dice of damage, plus 1d6 per 10 points by which its check result exceeds 20. In most cases, this won't matter, since the creature will likely die anyway, but it can help for shorter falls.

Falling Speed
Terminal velocity is around 165 ft./second. For game purposes, a falling object reaches terminal velocity on the third round – on the first round it reaches the 50% mark, or around 80 ft./second (500 feet); by the end of the second round, it's reached 99%, or around 160 ft./second (960 feet), and at the beginning of its turn on the third round, it's falling at 165 ft./second. This equates to:

First round: 480 feet (round to 500 feet);
Second round: 960 feet (round to 950 feet);
Third round+: 990 feet (round to 1,000).

A person falling from 5,000 feet would fall for five rounds and hit the ground on the sixth. If it were a flying creature, it could attempt to pull out of the fall during its turn on the sixth round instead.

It is possible to achieve speeds greater than terminal velocity – a skydiver in freefall position can fall up to 200 mph, as opposed to 120 mph for terminal velocity, by decreasing the amount of drag – but this system assumes that falling creatures are in that position unwillingly, and are thus not trying to fall faster.[/sblock]
 

Drowning: Once the PC is suffocating (after failing the Constitution check to continue holding her breath), she takes 1d6 Constitution damage per round. If any of this damage remains at the end of the round it is taken, the PC becomes unconscious.

This con damage should self-heal at some quick rate, like 1 point per minute, once the creature can breathe safely again. It shouldn't need a spell or a week of bed rest to recover from drowning.

Falling: For each 10 feet fallen, the PC takes 1d6-2 Constitution damage. For each size category smaller than Medium, the damage is one point less per 10 feet, to a minimum of 1d6-4 damage. For each size category larger than Medium, the damage is 1 point higher, to a maximum of 1d6+2 per 10 feet. Tumble and Jump can be used as normal to lessen the effective falling distance. For simplicity's sake, the maximum effective damage is 20d6 (plus modifiers). Finally, a Fortitude or Reflex save (DC equal to half the distance fallen) may be made to leave the PC with 1 Constitution point, and/or (if the PC had hit points remaining before impact) 0 hit points.

Two problems, one minor, one major.
Minor: The modifier has a range of 4 for large creatures and 2 for small creature. I assume you meant it to cap at d6 -4 and d6 +0, respectively?

Major: con damage has a big problem compared to hp damage -- what happens afterwards? Unlike drowning, a person can't simply quickly "get better." However, healing it with spells is also a pain in the arse. The Restoration line of spells are costly and time consuming to cast compared to cure spells. I don't think it should be significantly harder for a cleric to heal a guy that fell 200 feet than a guy that got run through with a sword a dozen times.
 


StreamoftheSky: The short answer is...that's the point! Those of us who favor Con damage for major trauma want it to be dangerous and potentially lethal to ANYONE. In the aftermath of a fall, the creature has reduced max hit points due to the Con damage until they are fully heal/restored.

However, your point is well taken, and serves to hilite the problems inherent in the Hit Point system. Namely, the lack of any serious injuries, or penalties, or disablements of any kind. I for one am a proponent, as I mentioned before, of adding such a level to the Damage, Death, and Dying rules (the Three D's).

Cheers
 

This con damage should self-heal at some quick rate, like 1 point per minute, once the creature can breathe safely again. It shouldn't need a spell or a week of bed rest to recover from drowning.
That's a good point ... maybe. As I said, all I know about drowning, I learned by watching Pamela Anderson's breasts heave as she ran in slow motion. In the real world, how long does it actually take someone to recover from inhaling potentially lethal amounts of fluid?

I've checked online, and the sources are very vague. There's some indication that death can still occur up to 72 hours after drowning, due to something called "secondary drowning," but Wikipedia has that section in dispute.

In any event, if I changed this, it would just be a set time, probably, to simplify it. Say the CON returns after 30 minutes, at which point the victim is fatigued.

Minor: The modifier has a range of 4 for large creatures and 2 for small creature. I assume you meant it to cap at d6 -4 and d6 +0, respectively?
No. Is there a reason it needs to be symmetrical?

The Restoration line of spells are costly and time consuming to cast compared to cure spells. I don't think it should be significantly harder for a cleric to heal a guy that fell 200 feet than a guy that got run through with a sword a dozen times.
I do. By the way D&D hit points work, nobody's getting run through a dozen times. Hit points represent the ability to dodge, the ability to turn what would be killing blows into less serious wounds, and the toughness to keep going even when wounded. You get better at doing all of these things as you gain experience as an adventurer.

And none of these things will help you miss the ground, when you fall 40 feet. You are almost certainly going to suffer major trauma, and the only thing that's going to help you is some serious luck. (That's why I prefer 1d6-2 to 1d4 for base damage, and that's why I allow a last-ditch saving throw.)

So ... the nastier after-effects of surviving a fall (as opposed to surviving a duel) aren't a problem, but rather they're the point.
 

So... How do you envision this system interacting with critters that lack a constitution score, such as undead and constructs. Clearly, undead and constructs don't have to worry about drowning... But what about falling?
 

So... How do you envision this system interacting with critters that lack a constitution score, such as undead and constructs. Clearly, undead and constructs don't have to worry about drowning... But what about falling?
That's an excellent question. I hadn't thought about it.

For most undead (and arguably constructs), it wouldn't be an issue. I don't have any problem with most undead just ignoring broken ribs (which in a living creature would be CON damage), for instance. On the other hand, skeletal undead should probably have issues, for sure.

Any suggestions?

Simple: Creatures without CON scores take normal HP damage.

Not as simple: Roll CON damage normally. If the CON damage is equal to or greater than the creature's DR or hardness (or maybe twice the DR?), the creature is destroyed. DR X/bludgeoning is ignored for this purpose. If the CON damage doesn't meet or exceed the DR, the creature is unharmed.

(This may sound powerful, but if you think about it, if you manage to knock an iron golem into a 100-foot pit, you've pretty much already dealt with it anyway.)

Thoughts?
 

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