D&D 5E (2014) Proposed Houserule: Warlock Spell Slots

[doctorbadwolf]

If you wanted to give the warlock spell slots faster, I'd suggest slowing their spell level growth. 3 3rd level spells per short rest at 5th level would be too much.

Obviously I disagree, but let’s explore a compromise.

What if it were an invocation, that requires the pact of the Tome?

 

[Xeviat]

Obviously I disagree, but let’s explore a compromise.

What if it were an invocation, that requires the pact of the Tome?

I don't believe invocations are "priced" that high. Maybe if it was a lower level slot.

I'm just looking at the 2 short rests per long rest conversion. Warlocks get a lot of spell power throughout the day. A 5th level warlock has 6 level 3 spells a day. A wizard has 2 level 3, 3 level 2, 4 level 1, and can recover 2 levels worth of slots on a short rest.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I don't believe invocations are "priced" that high. Maybe if it was a lower level slot.

I'm just looking at the 2 short rests per long rest conversion. Warlocks get a lot of spell power throughout the day. A 5th level warlock has 6 level 3 spells a day. A wizard has 2 level 3, 3 level 2, 4 level 1, and can recover 2 levels worth of slots on a short rest.

Well, no, they don’t.

I don’t know why this is so hard to get across, but this is a variant optional class feature for games where no one is getting that many short rests.

So no, it is not useful to assume that many short rests.

edit: And the Wizard has more Spellcasting even on a day where the party does get 2 short rests.

 

[Xeviat]

Well, no, they don’t.

I don’t know why this is so hard to get across, but this is a variant optional class feature for games where no one is getting that many short rests.

So no, it is not useful to assume that many short rests.

edit: And the Wizard has more Spellcasting even on a day where the party does get 2 short rests.

If you convert the wizard and warlock to spell points, and give the warlock 2 short rests a day, they're reasonably close. The wizard has arcane recovery, but the warlock has other features.

Now, I didn't catch that this was for lower short rest games. In that case, sure, but you might need to actually limit short rests to 1/day then.

I found my games to be better balanced between short and long rest classes once I made short rests 10 minutes and limited them to 2 a day. Now the battle master and warlock get adequate rests to keep up with the arcane trickster and cleric.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If you convert the wizard and warlock to spell points, and give the warlock 2 short rests a day, they're reasonably close. The wizard has arcane recovery, but the warlock has other features.

Now, I didn't catch that this was for lower short rest games. In that case, sure, but you might need to actually limit short rests to 1/day then.

I found my games to be better balanced between short and long rest classes once I made short rests 10 minutes and limited them to 2 a day. Now the battle master and warlock get adequate rests to keep up with the arcane trickster and cleric.

A lot of games just don’t have anywhere close to 6-8 encounters a day. Shorter short rests won’t really fix that.

Anyway, we disagree on how big a deal it is to give warlocks more Spellcasting for 5 levels. That’s fine.

 

[Xeviat]

A lot of games just don’t have anywhere close to 6-8 encounters a day. Shorter short rests won’t really fix that.

Anyway, we disagree on how big a deal it is to give warlocks more Spellcasting for 5 levels. That’s fine.

The number of encounters per day isn't the issue, it's rests. As long as there are 3 encounters, if you can get short, short, long rests, then the classes can be balanced. I've been running a campaign with primarily 3 deadly fights a day, or 2 medium and 2 deadly when there are some easy things. As long as the fighter and warlock get two short rests, they don't feel like the cleric outshines them so much.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The number of encounters per day isn't the issue, it's rests

You know damn well that a 6-8 encounter day is shorthand for a 6-8 encounter day with 2-3 short rests.

I’m not going to spell it out every time just to avoid you nitpicking.

 

[Ath'kethin]

Oh! Also, Variant Optional rule, make warlocks int based and give them prepared casting from known spells and they can learn more like wizards, but from the warlock spell list.

I like it!

In my Primeval Thule campaigns I ban all full casters except warlocks, and part of how I adjust for that is giving warlocks spellbooks and having them prepare spells like wizards. It gives them needed flexibility but doesn't overpower anything. We left them CHA based, though.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I like it!

In my Primeval Thule campaigns I ban all full casters except warlocks, and part of how I adjust for that is giving warlocks spellbooks and having them prepare spells like wizards. It gives them needed flexibility but doesn't overpower anything. We left them CHA based, though.

Yeah that makes sense. I like Warlock as an Int caster, but leaving it Cha work too.

 

[Ancalagon]

If you wanted to give the warlock spell slots faster, I'd suggest slowing their spell level growth. 3 3rd level spells per short rest at 5th level would be too much.

This is a valid concern, and this is why a few people suggested making the third slot "smaller" - it's only a first level spell slot (and it slowly gets "bigger" as you level up).