Proposed rules to deal with mounts and conditions

[bobcat_grad]

In my campaign, the characters all just got horses. During preparation for the next session, I realized that some of the monsters have condition effects from burst or area attacks. Since burst and area attacks would be made against the character and his/her mount separately, this could result in a condition being on the character and not the mount and vice versa. Nothing in the rules currently address how to handle some of these situations.

After getting feedback from players and this community here in other threads, I put together the following and would like additional critiques on the impacts of these rules.

• [FONT=&quot]All the rules in the DMG (page 46 and 47) apply as written[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]If a character is NOT mounted, the mount is a NPC under the control of the DM. This only applies on complete turns where the character is not mounted. So, if a character starts his turn mounted, and dismounts during the turn, then the mount is not a distinct entity until the following turn. Similarly, if a character mounts a mount on his turn, they begin sharing actions again.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]In all cases where there is a question of order of events, the character gets to take actions first before his mount.[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Example – a character is not mounted, and on his turn moves to the mount and then mounts. Since the character gets to ‘go first’ this prevents the DM from moving the horse out of range of the character.[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]While mounted, for conditions that effect a character, but NOT a mount, the following will apply:[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Blinded[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]No issue here. You and your mount share your set of actions, you just are under the normal effects of being blinded.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Dazed[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]You control the mount, and since you can only take one action, you can only direct the mount to take one action (or use the action yourself).[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Dominated[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]The DM gets to control your turn and use one combined action for you and your mount.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Dying[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]The character suffers dying condition normally. [/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]You get to make the normal prone saving throw to see if you fall off the mount. The DM can control your mount’s movement until you are no longer dying.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Immobilized[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]You cannot dismount. [/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]You can direct your mount to move, but you stay immobilized in one of the mount’s original squares. Basically, your mount rides out from under you.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Restrained[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]The same rule for Immobilized applies.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Slowed[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]The character’s speed becomes 2, but the mount remains the same. So, if the character dismounts, they are only able to move two spaces.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Stunned[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Since you cannot take actions, you cannot tell your mount to take actions.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Unconscious[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]As you are unconscious, you cannot tell your mount to take actions.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]You get to make the normal prone saving throw to see if you fall off the mount. The DM can control your mount’s movement until you are no longer dying.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Weakened[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]No issue here. Any attacks from the character are under the effects of weakened.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Any attack action from the mount is not under the effect of weakened. [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]While mounted, for conditions that effect a mount, but NOT the character, the following will apply:[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Blinded[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]No issue here. Your mount is blinded and suffers the effects.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Dazed[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Your mount can only take one action[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]You can take all three, but only use one of them with the mount. Example: if you mount is dazed, it can move, but it could not move and then charged.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Dominated[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]At the start of the character’s turn, the player announces if he will sacrifice a standard or move action.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]The DM reserves the right to use the sacrificed action after the player has resolved the other two actions. Example: The player says he won’t move on this turn. The player uses a standard and then minor action. The DM then uses the move action on the mount and controls his movement.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Dying[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]The mount suffers dying condition normally. [/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]When the mount falls prone, the character gets to choose an adjacent space to the prone mount.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Immobilized[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]The mount cannot move this turn.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Restrained[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]The same rule for Immobilized applies.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Slowed[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]The mount’s speed becomes 2, but the character’s speed remains the same. So, if the character dismounts, they are only able to move their normal speed.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Stunned[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]The mount cannot be used for any standard action.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]The mount cannot be used for any move action.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]The mount cannot be used for any minor action.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Unconscious[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]As you are unconscious, you cannot tell your mount to take actions. [/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]When the mount falls prone, the character gets to choose an adjacent space to the prone mount.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Weakened[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]No issue here. Any attacks from the mount are under the effects of weakened.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Any attack action from the character mount is not under the effect of weakened.[/FONT]

EDIT:

The above was the original set of conditions and how to deal with them. After some good feedback, I'm making some modifications.

Replacing those stated situations for when conditions effect the character, but NOT the mount

• Immobilized
  • You cannot dismount.
  • You can direct your mount to move

Replacing those stated situations for when conditions effect the mount, but NOT the character

• [FONT=&quot]Dominated[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Since the mount is dominated, the character and mount do not share actions. The character can use all three actions, but is unable to use the mount for any of them.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]After the character is done with his/her turn, the DM gets to treat the mount as dominated character and take one action. If the character is still mounted, and the DM moves the mount, the character continues along with the mount. This can provoke attacks of opportunity.
    [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Restrained[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]The same rule for Immobilized applies[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]If the character is subject to forced movement via a push, pull, or slide, they cannot elect to have the mount move, too. Effectively, the character becomes dismounted.[/FONT]

 

[talarei07]

shouldnt this be in house rules?

 

[bobcat_grad]

shouldnt this be in house rules?

Perhaps. But this list is more of a question of how to handle things that aren't covered by ANY rules in the DMG or subsequent WOTC source books.

I'm not changing rules, I'm asking if these make sense to handle very common situations when players are using mounts.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Immobilized is not restrained, so I don't like that a mount can't move you when you're immobilized. You can be pushed, slid, or pulled, but the mount can't move you? That doesn't make any sense. I would agree with your view on restrained, however.

Regarding domination of a mount, I think it should work normally. For one thing, a player can't have the mount move and then the mount gets to take a std action attack as per the domination. I think the player should take actions as normal, without being able to direct the mount at all (so no movement unless he dismounts), and then the mount takes the dominated action as defined by the enemy.

Regarding a restrained mount, I would make sure you include the additional caveat that if the PC gets forcibly moved, he can longer choose to also have the mount also forcibly moved. Not so for immobilized, however, where he can/should also have the mount move.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Mostly seems OK. I might not do things exactly this way in all cases but there are no real issues with any of this. Domination (of mount or pc) seems to be the trickiest one overall. I'm also going to agree with Infiniti2000 on immobilized. I think the mount should be able to carry you out of the space you're in. Its a bit of a nerf to immobilized but why not allow SOME advantage in a few situations for being mounted?

 

[bobcat_grad]

Immobilized is not restrained, so I don't like that a mount can't move you when you're immobilized. You can be pushed, slid, or pulled, but the mount can't move you? That doesn't make any sense. I would agree with your view on restrained, however.

You make a good point. I think I might change that one.

Regarding domination of a mount, I think it should work normally. For one thing, a player can't have the mount move and then the mount gets to take a std action attack as per the domination. I think the player should take actions as normal, without being able to direct the mount at all (so no movement unless he dismounts), and then the mount takes the dominated action as defined by the enemy.

The only problem with 'normal' execution of domination, is that a mount/character share actions. So, why should the character get to use all three AND then the DM get to make the mount do something? Unless you consider that once dominated, the mount is no longer really a controlled mount, and therefore is not subject to sharing actions with the character. Which might make more sense, after all.

Regarding a restrained mount, I would make sure you include the additional caveat that if the PC gets forcibly moved, he can longer choose to also have the mount also forcibly moved. Not so for immobilized, however, where he can/should also have the mount move.

Good point.

Awesome feed back on all points - thanks!

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I agree with the above changes, but have a few more suggestions:

1. I suggest making the roll to fall off the horse when unconsciousa save, not a prone save. To me it doesn't make sense that dwarves are better able to stay on their horses than are other races.

2. For a dominated mount, I think the dominator should take their action first - it seems most in line with the level of power of domination in non-mount situations.

3. You should make house rules for using the dominated mounts action to try to buck the rider off. This may not be the proper place to do so, however.

4. When you are unconscious/dying, do you make your save every round or simply when you first get the condition? It isn't clear. I would suggest only initially, and then whenever the mount double moves/runs.

5. You need to tidy up the language in the later sections - in cutting and pasting, you didn't always make all the necessary changes.

 

[JiggleFloyd]

Thanks for putting this list together, most of it makes a lot of sense and I think it will prove to be a useful resource. I disagree concerning one topic though:

If you are immobilized and your mount is not, it makes sense that you cannot dismount, but you should be able to move along with your mount's movement. This is because:

A) Your mount is using the move action.
B) Forced movement is allowed when immobilized. If you are allowed to stay on your mount if either of you are forced, it only makes sense that you can stay on the mount if it moves willingly.

Immobilized: You can’t move from your space, although you can teleport and can be forced to move by a pull, a push, or a slide.

Mount and Rider: Forced Movement: If an attack that forces movement targets you but not your mount, you can choose for your mount to also be affected, so that you and your mount continue to move together. If you don’t want your mount to be affected, you can be pushed off your mount if the forced movement carries you out of the mount’s space.

As for restrained, I agree with your reasoning because this is different because you are not allowed to move with forced movement. Therefore you cannot dismount and you cannot move with your mount if it moves away.

Restrained:
• You grant combat advantage.
• You’re immobilized.
• You can’t be forced to move by a pull, a push, or a slide.
• You take a -2 penalty to attack rolls.