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Protecting Troops from Fireball

The best way?

Easy, you take a few weeks. Give each of the mooks a sap, and make them fight each other individually. Your average warrior has CR 1/2, which means that if another such warrior defeats them...they've gained 1/7th of a level or so at lvl 1. They completely heal up in a few hours each, so...at three or so fights per day you quickly end up with troops who are NOT merely lvl 1 grunts.

After some weeks of this, you take a few of your highest level soldiers and send THEM against the enemy. Preferably in non-fireball and non-spot friendly formations. Much more effective than massed troops.
 

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Elder-Basilisk

First Post
So, what you're saying is that an 8th-10th level wizard with lots of area effect spells combined with a unit of 50 cavalry with lances can annihilate a group of 100 green recruits.

No surprise there.

And, if you add a line of pikemen to the equation, you're now saying that an 8th-10th level wizard with lots of area effect spells prepped, a line of some 30-40 pikemen, and a group of 50 cavalry with lances can annihilate a group of 100 green recruits.

Again, no surprise there.

And then there are archers--lets' say 20--who "pick off anyone who moves out of formation" (though why it's easier to pick off people outside of the loose formation the previous poster described is anyone's guess). So, now we're saying that an 8th-10th level wizard (until then we're only talking about a couple of fireballs), a line of pikemen (let's say 50 so that it's too many for the loose formation to outflank), a group of 20 archers, and 50 cavalry can annihilate a group of 100 light infantry.

What a surprising outcome.

If you are outnumbered, outgunned, underequipped, and outmanuevered, you're going to lose.... and people are surprised or think the light infantry are losing to the wizard rather than the cavalry, pikemen, and archers that somehow got stacked on top of him?

In fact, the only surprising thing is why a wizard who can drop multiple fireballs (range long: 400 feet +40/level--800' at 10th level if you're counting) onto a charging line of light infantry from 1000 feet behind a line of pikemen is bothering with fireball at all. Since he's obviously 17th level or so, (1080 foot range with a fireball) why not just use sunburst and clean the whole lot up with one spell?

Let's toss in a couple other hypotheticals:

50 pikemen, 50 cavalary, 20 archers, and a 10th level barbarian with armor of invulnerability vs. the 100 soldiers. Hey look, the soldiers get slaughtered.

50 pikemen, 50 cavalry, 20 archers, and a 2nd level aristocrat vs. the 100 light infantry soldiers. Hey, look, what a surprise, the pikemen, archers, and cavalry win again--without any magic at all.

Sure, they take some more casualties when you add the 8-10th level wizard, but they take fewer casualties when you add the 10th level barbarian as well.

a 10th level barbarian with great cleave vs. the 100 light infantry--hey look, odds are good the 10th level barbarian wins by himself.

It's been said before and it bears saying again: the impact of fireball is far far greater in a field that includes only 100 soldiers on each side than on one that includes say 3,000 soldiers on each side.

It's also worth mentioning that if you start your hypothetical assuming that the wizard's side has everything that is necessary for success, the wizard will win.

If, on the other hand, the wizard does not have cavalry and the soldiers have a decent number of archers, the wizard will need to pull some tricks out of his hat to win and if the soldiers pull some out of their hat first (say a group of low level rangers who sneaked around the edge of the battlefield, charge, and grapple the wizard), they will most likely win. Even if they don't have anything, special, they stand a much better chance of inflicting significant casualties by spreading out until they are close then getting amid the pikemen and making area effect spells hard for the wizard to use. And who knows, if they are lucky, the pikemen might break and run even though the other side took more casualties. And without his pikemen, they may be able to take down the wizard.

Hypotheticals can go either way, but they cease to become useful if you constantly invent new elements and forces to counter any proposed strategy.

andargor said:
50 enemy cavalry appear, and charge what's left of your flank. If you bunch up to stop the charge, they veer away and the wizard fries your troops, in addition to archers which pick off targets out of formation.

Of course, in D&D, it might not be effective, but in the real world... :)

Oh, and your troops have about 1,000 ft. to run to get to the wizard (past the line of pikemen), small detail. ;)

Andargor
 

Nail

First Post
Wow, this thread's back? :)

A Wiz 10 can overcome a large group of CR 1/2 creatures. The 3.x system is designed for exactly such an outcome. Why is this a problem?
 


Nail said:
A Wiz 10 can overcome a large group of CR 1/2 creatures. The 3.x system is designed for exactly such an outcome. Why is this a problem?
Because armies are cool, and castles are cool, and mass warfare is cool. Not to mention a staple of the fantasy genre.

Even if D&D makes them completely nonsensical.
 

andargor

Rule Lawyer Groupie
Supporter
Elder-Basilisk said:
Hypotheticals can go either way, but they cease to become useful if you constantly invent new elements and forces to counter any proposed strategy.

Young basilisks are cheery and elder basilisks are grumpy. But they both turn you to stone, anyway. :)

I wasn't particularly serious in my post, but that sure was a nice dissertation, thanks. :D

Andargor
 

Elder-Basilisk

First Post
andargor said:
Young basilisks are cheery and elder basilisks are grumpy. But they both turn you to stone, anyway. :)

I wasn't particularly serious in my post, but that sure was a nice dissertation, thanks. :D

Andargor

ROFL. Well, I guess that's the way to deal with a grumpy basilisk....
 

WolverineJon

First Post
Here's a thought on the original problem that I just had (though I'm not sure if this is at all viable from a RAW perspective!) :

Give each of the 100 warriors a tower shield. Have each warrior advance only with their move action (in the manner that glass suggested all the way back in post #6 in this thread), but with their standard action, ready an action to fall prone with their tower shield positioned over themselves when the incoming fireball happens. (Assume the tower shields are oval and slightly concave in shape -- picture a turtle-shell-like shape -- so that the edges of the shield can be flush with the ground while also allowing the warrior to fit beneath it, to prevent the spread of the fireball from having any gaps to fit through.)

A couple of potential problems with this:

- Could a tower shield really be this shape? (I don't see anything that necessarily contradicts this in the SRD description of the tower shield.)
- Can each warrior both drop prone *and* get their tower shield into the proper position in the single readied action? (Maybe the warriors could be carrying their shields overhead in the proper position to begin with so that when they go prone, the shield just ends up in the correct position?)
 


Storyteller01

First Post
Grogtar said:
Im not sure I understand the problem. People using Tower Shields can easily block a fireball, cant they ?

When using a tower shield for full cover you get to select one "side" of your square that you gain total cover from. Like this (x = people, | = shield):

_____|x
---> |x
_____|x

If the arrow is the fireball its line of sight and effect is blocked by hard cover. Doesnt this mean the fireball fizzles ?

<edit : ignore the _'s. Stupid formatting>



The fireball could wrap around the tops of the shields after detonating.
 

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