PSA: "Dead" games are still playable

[Guythegard]

are you kidding, it wuld be tough luke finding enuf people to play 4e with me so I never tried.

 

[Jd Smith1]

In my experience, while it's not impossible to find players for a dead game, it's more of an uphill battle. To start with, it can be somewhat difficult to find players for games other than D&D. And now I'm going to ask them to play a game that's been out of print for who knows how long and they may never have heard of? It gets a lot more difficult to get people to try.

Not on-line. I play non-mainstream games, and have never had any problem finding players. In fact, I'm currently above my preferred headcount. There's a huge demand for long-term weekly campaigns.

But if you play F2F, it could definitely be a problem.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I am not sure my table could go back to play 1e/2e- maybe 3e/Pathfinder. Every change brings in some new rules and options that stick for a reason and to make a play at 2e and still have things like THAC0 and no feats and the d20 system for stats would be a big step back. I have not looked much at some of the new remakes of the OSE and such so they may have changed enough from the original to be its own game by now.

I'm the opposite. The overloaded garbage wagon that is 5e and its endless stream of splatbooks is exactly why I won't play any d20 system.

 

[dagger]

As long as no one wants to play a thief, you'll probably be OK.

The Gnome Illusionist/Thief in my current game is a beast

 

[dagger]

THAC0 is simple to convert. For AD&D and 2E it’s: 20 - DAC = AAC.

DAC is descending AC.

AAC is ascending AC.

Feats you can homebrew or port over. Check out Skills & Powers. The seeds are there.

d20 system for stats? You mean ability checks? AD&D and 2E had those. Roll 1d20 and compare it to your stat. Roll equal to or under, you succeed. For over, you fail. Late AD&D and 2E had a skill system.

Yep, 1e/2e is easy to run with THAC0 or without, or even to use Base Attack Bonus like 3e. Its all the same. I like THAC0 because the players can just tell me what AC they hit, no need for the to hit charts. But if they wanted to used Ascending BAB I could use that as well.

 

[aramis erak]

Literally no human being who is aware of published games is unaware of this.

Really? Because I see people on this very board talk about how they will have to sell their books once the OGL goes away, and who refuse to play dead editions.

That they're aware they won't be able to find players if they don't is immaterial to their being aware of the rules still being technically usable.

I have zero expectation of ever being able to get my copy of The Arcanum to table again. Not because it's a bad game, but with it being OOP, only players that already know and trust me are going to be willing to even bother trying it.

The thought process for me with OOP games is this: If I try one someone else is running, and I want to run it too, will I be able to get a copy of my own for something even vaguely like a reasonable price? If not, I'm not interested - I don't need another grail game.
If my players want to, will they? I know a game's a hit when they buy materials for it. (L5R, 3 sessions in and EVERYONE has bought the dice for 5th... tho' 3 of the 6 have played before.) But when it goes OOP, the dice will become a hinderance to further adoption.
Will my group enjoy it? (Their tastes and mine overlap, but far from 100%)

Likewise, I wanted to run T2K 2.0 a couple years back... but the PDF available is only 2.2, and my 2.0 dead tree was in a different state of the US. I remember most of the differences, but my players would never be able to get even a PDF of 2.0. And I happen to have an in with the rights manager, and the 2.0 isn't going to get a PDF for reasons unspecified.

DragonLance 5th Age, Marvel Super Heroes Adventure Game, FFG/Edge Genesys, FFG/Edge Star Wars, FFG WFRP3, L5R 5E, and a few other games, have custom components that make use a problem. DL5A and MSHAG both use custom decks of cards - decks which WotC won't (DL5A) and can't legally (MSHAG) make available from DriveThruCards. I can find my DL5A cards, but not my MSHAG ones. Genesys, Star Wars, WFRP 3, and L5R 5E all use custom dice; only L5R is practical with a conversion mat.

I've had players who used conversion mats for SW... they fell rapidly into three camps -
Camp 1: bought their own dice
Camp 2: insisted on borrowing dice to play - hence why I own 8 sets of SW dice and 5 of L5R 5
Camp 3: refused to play further.
None of them wanted to use conversion mats other than in L5R - my L5R players will use a conversion mat if they forget their dice... and I have a group of dice-superstitious players. N borrows dice - tho' in the prior campaign, she had bought a set. She has issues with keeping track of things, so given the intervening years between L5R campaigns, she's misplaced her sets, so is borrowing mine for session.

When the dice are no longer available, the books become increasingly less useable over time, without regard to whether the rules aged well.

 

[aramis erak]

I've been very impressed by how well 2E holds up whenever I go back to it.

And I've discovered I cannot stand it anymore, and 1E I find even worse.
I hold no nostalgia for AD&D despite it being my first RPG.

Not everyone thinks it holds up. Nor does everyone need to agree on whether it does or not...

THAC0 is simple to convert. For AD&D and 2E it’s: 20 - DAC = AAC.

Technically, THAC-0 does NOT match the AD&D 1E rules. It ignores the flat spots on the tables.

 

[Jack Daniel]

Given that publishing material is lifeblood to a game, the OGL meant that games didn't have to die anymore.

Reminding everyone that you can just play your dead games forever is analogous to telling Olympians and Æsir with no more ambrosia or golden apples to keep everyone in their world immortal that at least they can still play Weekend at Bernie's with the corpses.

Bitterness aside — and in the spirit of hope that the OGL isn't actually dead and gone — THAC0 is literally just a DC. If you play 3e, 4e, or 5e, you use THAC0 already, all the time, and outside of combat even.

 

[Bedrockgames]

And I've discovered I cannot stand it anymore, and 1E I find even worse.
I hold no nostalgia for AD&D despite it being my first RPG.

Not everyone thinks it holds up. Nor does everyone need to agree on whether it does or not...

It is very subjective. I am not suggesting other people need to share my enjoyment of 2E. Personally I enjoyed 3rd edition, but I found 2E plays in a way that fits my style better, and even though the system is less centralized, overall I enjoy the mechanics of it more. But I still like most editions from Basic to 3E. I fell off after 3E and haven't been able to get into recent editions, but that is just personal taste.

 

[aramis erak]

Given that publishing material is lifeblood to a game, the OGL meant that games didn't have to die anymore.

Maybe.

Bitterness aside — and in the spirit of hope that the OGL isn't actually dead and gone —

Given certain elements of leaked OGL1.1 information, it's quite possible that anything released after OGL1.1 goes live, even if not D&D derived, might be forced to use OGL 1.1 for new publications. (The leak states 1.0a being no longer authorized.) I honestly expect litigation to happen to resolve the contradictory elements of 1.0a and the issue of whether authorization can be withdrawn.