Pseudonatural dire weasels

[Herremann the Wise]

Hi Bauglir,

For a Dire Weasel, I think the Con Damage is 1d4 not 2d4 (they have to maintain a hold to get this) and the weasel's themselves have only 13hp (19 if the caster has the augment summoning feat). Additionally, their strength bonus is +2 (+4 with A.S.) and their size is medium, which means that your average fiend should have little difficulty in a grapple with them and most importantly, with so few hit points, they are easily killed.

As a psuedonatural creature, your caster will have a little difficulty instructing and co-ordinating their efforts (their INT is 3 (Psuedonatural) and they will not speak a language). As such, they will just run off and attack the first perceived enemy (too bad if it's a mook).

All in all, I fail to see an issue here. If your fiends are on their own, then yes, they will be quickly destroyed by most parties. Throw in some mooks and I think you'll find that the battles go a little more to plan and become enjoyable again.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[uzagi_akimbo]

In a totally different vein, I harbour some doubts that (dire ) weasels will find outsider blood tasty and desirable, and hence, commence biting/sucking. Depending on your type of outsider a Fortitude check for nausea or sickening might be in order, or it may even be poisonous or caustic ( channeling "alien " here). Since the Dire Weasels are Pseudonatural though, we might assume slightly altered sense of taste (GM's call ) which might just be up to swallowing the vile stuff.

Of course, given the fact that basic Dire Weasels only have bite damage of 1D6+3 (1d6+5 with Augmented Summoning) they will usually be hard pressed to even yield a damaging bite on most outsiders, given that these tend to have DR 10/whatever or better.

no actual damage = no secondary effects from bite like con drain.

Another tactic for the outsiders may be using fire shield (magic) or immolate themselves with some kerosene (they are pretty likely to be immune to that, while the Diie Weasels are not ). Aura of Cold (greater and lesser ) from Frostburn will be veryeffective in ckilling of the weasels, especially if energy substituted. As will a point blank range fireball (given their commonly excellent saves and elemental resistances most outsiders will take no damage ).

And with "Complete Arcana" waiting in the wings (and the Alienist as confirmed content ) it's a rather safe bet that the pseudonatural template may see a revision pretty soon. If is anything like the "ice beast" template from Frostburn, all specuial attacks of the summoned beasties will get replaced (hence no con drain abuse ). So maybe check out that book, once it hits the street,

Oh, as a last "house rule" resort - as the pseudonatural template alters the metabolism and origin of the Dire Weasels, assume that their usually ravening appetites get replaced by something else - aka swap out the hunger driven blood-drain with something else...

 

[Sejs]

Oh, as a last "house rule" resort - as the pseudonatural template alters the metabolism and origin of the Dire Weasels, assume that their usually ravening appetites get replaced by something else - aka swap out the hunger driven blood-drain with something else...

Like say a minor version of Rotting Constriction that the epic pseudonatural template has.

Normal dire weasels drain your con by sucking out your blood, because that's how they hunt.

Pseudonatural dire weasels drain your con by latching on to you and making your body's cohesion decay. The resulting pseudo-matter goo is then absorbed by their bodies as sort of their version of food when they later have an opportunity to feed.

Use the same game mechanics and effects, just different special effects for flavor.

^_^

 

[Storyteller01]

DO attached enemies go with a target if the target is blinking (per the spell)?

Anti Magic Shell (Last I heard, summoned creatures can't work in them).

reverse the tactic on them!! If it works, others will repeat the process.

 

[uzagi_akimbo]

Like say a minor version of Rotting Constriction that the epic pseudonatural template has.

Normal dire weasels drain your con by sucking out your blood, because that's how they hunt.

Pseudonatural dire weasels drain your con by latching on to you and making your body's cohesion decay. The resulting pseudo-matter goo is then absorbed by their bodies as sort of their version of food when they later have an opportunity to feed.

Use the same game mechanics and effects, just different special effects for flavor.

^_^

That's not what I meant - "replace the blood-drain with something else aka "sensible" " was what I meant,

For one the whole blood drain ability of normal weasels is a joke in itself - check some encyclopedia or online-database ( try here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel and here http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/NorthAmerica/Facts/fact-ferret.cfm for some facts about weasel/polecats dietary habits for starters ), and strangely enough the ability/habit of sucking their victims blood does not get mentioned. Imagine the deadly weasel sucking the blood out of... frogs ?
Yes, this is D20 fantasy roleplaying but a weasel is an RL animal, so if they want to introduce an awesome vampiric polecat-bulldog hybrid, ok, lets write up some magical beast or similar for this purpose, but they shouldn't conjure up some ridiculous mode of attack for something from RL and still treat it as RL. An animal, that is.
And staying within fantastic parameters, can you imagine the dire weasel latched onto, say a cloud giant sucking out his blood until he dies of Con-loss ( and rolling off into its lair like a bloated tick after the kill.... yeah, right !) which in theory it could, easily even if it brought along some mates ? So either the GM makes a call as to just how far that ability goes, or he alters the wrecked animal writeup from the MM to fit realistic conditions and habits.

Or he fills out the gaps where the rules just don't go all the way - after all it's his adventure, campaign and time. Hence - think hard about the possibility and ramifications of an oversized animal ( however pseudonatural ) trying to guzzle down a Taanari's acidic, otherworldly blood.

As an aside - a simple tactic for any outsider to use is to move outside the summon monster spell's range - it has "close" range from the caster ( so it shouldn't exceed 50'-60' at mid levels ), and moving beyond that distance, the summoned creatures either cease to exist or are forced to let go, hence ending the threat from continued attachment.

 

[Sejs]

Hence - think hard about the possibility and ramifications of an oversized animal ( however pseudonatural ) trying to guzzle down a Taanari's acidic, otherworldly blood.

Well, two points - most outsiders don't have acidic or otherwise harmful blood, unless otherwise stated in their statblock. Wierd, possibly foul and tainted - sure. Eat-thru-steel, Aliens style acidic - no. There would be other ramifications of acidic blood beyond the No Weasels factor, anyway. Like taking damage any time you injured one in melee combat. The other point being... pseudonatural creatures come from the Far Realm, a place beyond the shores of sanity where black is white, up is slightly to the left, right now is next tuesday and acidic blood is a pleasant orange frappe. Normal weasels having problems with funky outsider blood, sure. Pseudonatural weasels having problems with funky outsider blood, I don't buy. In my mind Pseudonatural trumps Fiendish on the alien scale every time.


Besides, don't Pseudonatural creatures have acid resistance anyway? Thought they were resistant to acid and electricity, memory serving.

 

[Koewn]

As a psuedonatural creature, your caster will have a little difficulty instructing and co-ordinating their efforts (their INT is 3 (Psuedonatural) and they will not speak a language). As such, they will just run off and attack the first perceived enemy (too bad if it's a mook).

Actually, the SRD states (in the Monsters Section, under 'Abilities') that any creature with an Int of 3 or higher understands (or speaks if able to) one language, which is Common unless stated otherwise, and the Psuedonatural template (as well as Celestial/Fiendish) all grant the base creature Int 3.

So, it'd depend on what Psuedonatural creatures speak, as long as you keep things to the level a Half-Orc Barbarian with one really poor stat roll can understand

It's one of the reasons Wizard/Cleric Summons can trump Druid Summons. A little language investment in Celestial, Abyssal and/or Infernal gets you some control over the situation, since they're all templated if they're 'normal creatures'.

And thanks for the tip on Dire Weasels (I'm a Alienist, myself, I overlooked the blood drain - haven't had time to read all the descriptions yet for Summon 3 and 4). They're like non-flying stirges (that can't grapple, but that's what True Strike is for)

I'm starting to see Psuedo Dire Weasel(s) plus Hold Person (or similar action-denying spells, to guarantee a round or two of Con drain) as an interesting combo. A Druid could also add Enlarge Animal, I think. A knowledgable conjurer is a dangerous thing.

Koewn

 

[Storyteller01]

DO attached enemies go with a target if the target is blinking (per the spell)?

Anti Magic Shell (Last I heard, summoned creatures can't work in them).

reverse the tactic on them!! If it works, others will repeat the process.

Does anyone know if the weasles can stay attached to a blinking character?

 

[Sejs]

I'd probably say no on the Blink thing, otherwise it would open up possible issues like grabbing people and then ditching them on the etherial plane, stranded.

 

[Storyteller01]

So a witch hunting group after the wizard who summons monsters even fiends won't deal with can be equipped with items that allows blinking?? No one round gnawings for the weasels?? Maybe even have other conjurors on site (fight fire with fire)??