Pseudonatural dire weasels

[Herremann the Wise]

Actually, the SRD states (in the Monsters Section, under 'Abilities') that any creature with an Int of 3 or higher understands (or speaks if able to) one language, which is Common unless stated otherwise, and the Psuedonatural template (as well as Celestial/Fiendish) all grant the base creature Int 3.

So, it'd depend on what Psuedonatural creatures speak, as long as you keep things to the level a Half-Orc Barbarian with one really poor stat roll can understand
Koewn

I had this discussion with my DM whereupon we decided upon a solution that a Tongues spell would do the trick - something my character [Lucifus Cray {an alienist although he titles himself a warlock} if you wish to read my story hour] has made permanent. However, we ruled that animal/vermin based summonings were unable to undestand any language. The SRD as you quote it would seem to indicate otherwise - although I think this is where our DM's fiat comes in. Why would a barely intelligible creature from the far reaches of the extraplanar cosmos just happen to understand and possibly speak common?
I suppose commonsense dictates one thing while the SRD supports another.

I'm happy enough letting this one slide - I have far more devious tricks for the DM to worry about.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Koewn]

Double your pleasure, double your post with Doublepost gum.

 

[Koewn]

For one the whole blood drain ability of normal weasels is a joke in itself

Normal animal weasels just have an 'Attach' thing, where they do auto-bite damage each round. Dire weasels? Well, I'd figured that it wasn't "Blood Drain to Eat", but just Blood Drain - i.e. that big-old *dire* weasel, with big ol' sharp knife-like teeth and powerful, perhaps even crocodile-strength jaws is just cutting so deep and gnawing so hard into the deep flesh where the big vessels live that the 'Blood Drain' effect is not it feeding, but just that blood flowing (bursting, squirting, spouting, you know) out onto the ground.

Never says where it drains to in the description

move outside the summon monster spell's range - it has "close" range from the caster ( so it shouldn't exceed 50'-60' at mid levels ), and moving beyond that distance, the summoned creatures either cease to exist or are forced to let go, hence ending the threat from continued attachment.

*sigh* You know, I never thought about that. And I know you are absolutely, incontrovertably, undeniably correct when you say that. And my group has always assumed the range limit for was where they *appeared*, and not how far they could go afield.

And when I recall sending 5 psuedonatural huge centipedes over a castle wall to keep the mooks inside occupied for 8 rounds, knowing now that it was hugely against the rules the way I did it....well....don't care Perhaps Summons are too effective if the range limit is enforced, but, since I've never played the sort of funny tricks this thread is talking about, perhaps it's just my usage (as expendable 'linebackers') that's poor. Meh

Koewn

 

[shilsen]

*sigh* You know, I never thought about that. And I know you are absolutely, incontrovertably, undeniably correct when you say that. And my group has always assumed the range limit for was where they *appeared*, and not how far they could go afield.

You're being ironic, I hope, since uzagi_akimbo is wrong. The range on a summoning spell is how far away the creature can appear. After appearing, it can move around and go beyond that range.

 

[Bauglir]

Of course, given the fact that basic Dire Weasels only have bite damage of 1D6+3 (1d6+5 with Augmented Summoning) they will usually be hard pressed to even yield a damaging bite on most outsiders, given that these tend to have DR 10/whatever or better.

no actual damage = no secondary effects from bite like con drain.

Is there a rule covering this? I mean, I can certainly see the logic in it, but I generally prefer to run things with the RAW (makes for fewer arguments).

The text from the Dire Weasel has the following:

Attach (Ex): A dire weasel that hits with its bite attack latches onto the opponent’s body with its powerful jaws. An attached dire weasel loses its Dexterity bonus to AC and thus has an AC of 12.

Note: only requirement here is to hit, not to damage.

There would be other ramifications of acidic blood beyond the No Weasels factor...

Can I sig this?

Lots of great suggestions all around folks, thanks.

 

[Sejs]

Can I sig this?

Sure, be my guest.

 

[Koewn]

You're being ironic, I hope, since uzagi_akimbo is wrong. The range on a summoning spell is how far away the creature can appear. After appearing, it can move around and go beyond that range.

I dunno. While far be it from me to invoke the dreaded 'Rules of the Game' posts on WoTC's site, one of them talked about spell descriptions, and spell ranges.

In it, The Skipper promoted the idea that spell effects cannot extend beyond the stated range, giving the example of a fireball centered at the maximum...uh...600ft range for a 5th level caster, let's say.

He said the fireball wouldn't effect the half of it's usual area that's outside the maximum range - the part of that 20ft spread that's beyond the 600ft mark.

Also, the SRD states that: "A spell's range is the maximum distance from you that a spell's effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell's point of origin", which is where Skip drew that statement from.

Since the Summon spells are a continous 'effect'( like a Cloudkill) and not Instantaneous, the deduction is that the 25+5/2 range on the Summon is the also the max range which the creatures can roam from you.

I don't like the deduction, and we don't play by that interpretation (it's actually never come up), but it's there none-the-less. Perhaps in dungeon situations it's not too bad of a limitation, but the game I run and the one I play in are almost always more geared toward open-air skirmishes, and I'd be hard pressed to keep Summons memorized in favor of more effective long-reach direct damage spells.

Personally, I won't tell anyone if you don't.

Koewn

 

[uzagi_akimbo]

Normal animal weasels just have an 'Attach' thing, where they do auto-bite damage each round. Dire weasels? Well, I'd figured that it wasn't "Blood Drain to Eat", but just Blood Drain - i.e. that big-old *dire* weasel, with big ol' sharp knife-like teeth and powerful, perhaps even crocodile-strength jaws is just cutting so deep and gnawing so hard into the deep flesh where the big vessels live that the 'Blood Drain' effect is not it feeding, but just that blood flowing (bursting, squirting, spouting, you know) out onto the ground.

Never says where it drains to in the description

Well actually, I think it was defined somewhere in the SRD that a "successful hit" means drawing damage (unless we are talking touch attacks) . And - IMHO at least - it seems ludicrous, that a Dire Weasel that cannot actually damage a victim will still be able to drain blood from it (probably by osmosis...), but I will readily agree that there have been far stranger birds among the rules of D20 v3.5....

*sigh* You know, I never thought about that. And I know you are absolutely, incontrovertably, undeniably correct when you say that. And my group has always assumed the range limit for was where they *appeared*, and not how far they could go afield.

And when I recall sending 5 psuedonatural huge centipedes over a castle wall to keep the mooks inside occupied for 8 rounds, knowing now that it was hugely against the rules the way I did it....well....don't care Perhaps Summons are too effective if the range limit is enforced, but, since I've never played the sort of funny tricks this thread is talking about, perhaps it's just my usage (as expendable 'linebackers') that's poor. Meh

Koewn

lol, having two face several necromancers (with the horrendous Summon Undead line of spells ), morally ambivalent priests and heaps of druids fond of summoning dire beasties on top of unsuspecting enemy spellcasters, all of which sprang from the nasty minds of my fellow players teaches you about a lot of low tricks with regard to the spells' limits and possibilities. Conjuring is simply hugely underrated in the public mind due to the lack of "Big Blasts" and smoking boots... But many of the tinkering players will quickly assess the limitations of any given spell, even the ones that are frankly beyond the spirit of the rules - and tryto use them to full effect...

 

[3d6]

From the SRD:

Conjuration

Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or some form of energy to you (the summoning subschool), actually transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling), heal (healing), transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation), or create objects or effects on the spot (creation). Creatures you conjure usually, but not always, obey your commands.

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.

 

[uzagi_akimbo]

Well, two points - most outsiders don't have acidic or otherwise harmful blood, unless otherwise stated in their statblock. Wierd, possibly foul and tainted - sure. Eat-thru-steel, Aliens style acidic - no. There would be other ramifications of acidic blood beyond the No Weasels factor, anyway. Like taking damage any time you injured one in melee combat. The other point being... pseudonatural creatures come from the Far Realm, a place beyond the shores of sanity where black is white, up is slightly to the left, right now is next tuesday and acidic blood is a pleasant orange frappe. Normal weasels having problems with funky outsider blood, sure. Pseudonatural weasels having problems with funky outsider blood, I don't buy. In my mind Pseudonatural trumps Fiendish on the alien scale every time.


Besides, don't Pseudonatural creatures have acid resistance anyway? Thought they were resistant to acid and electricity, memory serving.

you are right ( or are until we get the Complete arcana into our paws =) ) , but I agree that pseudonatural dire weasels ( anyone seen "Dreamcatcher" ??? YUCK !) might be unfazed by questions of "taste" and "odd composition