[Psi] Psionic combat. What's the point?

[Zhure]

This isn't a rant. Really it isn't. And I'm not looking for house rules to improve/degrade psionic combat. What I'm trying to do is understand the purpose of psionic combat.

From my limited experience as a player, I've seen it used a couple of times, almost always by psychic monsters with unlimited uses per day to erode the PP of the psionic characters in the group. That makes a sort of limited sense, Mind Shield and Thought Blank only cost 1 PP to manifest and that won't run through their PPs very quickly. Mind Shield also gives a MH of 1, so it helps offset the stat damage that does leak through.

The other use I've seen is Mind Blast as an AoE cone stunning swaths through the non-psychic.

I haven't seen it used in a class vs class situation. Where a Psion attacks a Psychic Warrior or vice-versa. What I foresee is a the defender just drawing a weapon and smacking his target, running a race of hit points vs power points/stat points. Or using a genuine power to do damage instead of a weapon. Generally I think hit points'll run out first.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Has anyone seen a lot of psionic combat and have insight for me?

 

[Piratecat]

We use it rarely, mostly for mind blast. It's occasionally good for stripping a psion of their top layer of spells, or ripping away power points.

 

[WaterRabbit]

Back in 2e it was necessary since magic and psionics did not interact. You needed to have psionic combat to take out other psionics. IMO with 3e, you could just drop psionic combat altogether and it would work out just fine.

 

[MJEggertson]

I used to love psionics in 2E. I felt the psionic combat was handled well there, providing an extra mental barrier to psi characters. I got to say though, I'm not a fan of psi in 3E, its changed so much, it just seems like another sorcerer class to me, but with a different focus. Even if you play with the "psionics are different" rule, it still doesn't seem right to me. I don't think psionic combat has changed much in the 2E->3E transistion, but I haven't really played around with that. To be honest, I was so turned off by the new rules, I've only used them once for an npc in one of my campains. All the changes they made has put psi characters as my least favorite class, they used to be my favorite.

I for one, would love to see an alternative set of (complete) rules for psionics in 3E. Especially drop the stupid system with disciplines depending on different stats. Dexterity for a nomad? I mean come on. For me, psi is all about wisdom. Its the power of the mind. Will and the Way anyone? Heavy uses of psi can tax you, so con may come in to play, and int isn't bad either. Viva la AD&D psionics!

Ironic how I purchased the 3E psionics handbook early because I thought I was going to love it so much. I got me a signed copy, but its the one 3E book that I truly think is crap. I'll stop now before I go into rant mode.

Yech, psionics.

-Mike

 

[Gaiden]

Psionics are definitely not as cool as they used to be - there is no question about that. Of course, even in the 2E psionics handbook itself it left everything as an optional use to the DM. Only Dark Sun had (with no exception) psionics in its world. The reason for this was that psionics was one of the most powerful abilities in 2E - if not the most powerful. The designers of 3E were attempting to balance the classes, not sustain the imbalances of 2E.

On the other hand, its hard to keep a straight face if you are going to try and say the 3e psion is the 3e equivalent of 2e psion. There is no comparison. 3e psions use a completely different system than in 2e: they use a standard magic-type list of acquisition rather than the old system where all abilities were accessable any time and just required a PSP initaition cost and maintenance cost. 2e psions were the ultimate in core and 3e psions suck golfballs threw hoses by comparison. If using psionics are the same, psions utterly suck - they really, really, REALLY get shafted. A sorcerer of equal level will always be more powerful. They always know more spells than the psion knows powers (excluding combat modes - low levels only) and they ALWAYS can cast more spells than a psion can initiate powers (assuming equal levels). Lastly the psicrystal is a truly lame excuse for a familiar.

If I can put words into the mouths of the designers I would say that the point of a psion is that he has ultimate versatility. At 20th level a psion can activate 183 1st level powers. A sorcerer certainly cannot do that. Of course the sorcerer could cast timestop...

Psionic combat is the exception. Here the psions gain some acceptance in my book. The ability to stun nonpsionic combatants for a number of rounds is tremendously powerful. Stunned opponents may drop what their holding, can't act, and lose dex bonus.

Eg.

Your psion gets into psionic combat with a purple worm by sending a mind blast in its general direction. The purple worm fails its will save and is now stunned for 3d4 rounds. Your 4th or 5th level psion has just taken out a purple worm (his companions now all move in to flank the creature (+4 bonus to attack, +2 from stunned and +2 from flanking), and shred the thing to ribbons with their greatswords.

I don't want to even get into the sick smackdowns a lone character could do who is some psion/rogue combo (can you say soulknife).


Psionic combat between psionic opponents is worthless and a waste of time for a PC. Most likely, your DM is not going to create another psion/psychic warrior but use a monster who has unlimited PP for its psionic combat modes (like an illithid). This sux because it simply means you lose your PP's while defending against its attacks. Further, for psionic attacks to be effective they need to drain enough of one ability to cripple the opponent. Unless you are lucky enough to encounter a creature that does not have the defense that is most useful against the one attack you want to get off, you have to vary back and forth between two attacks and attack two abilities to keep your opponent guessing, effectively taking twice as long.

Of course, when my PC's encountered a group of 6 mindflayers in Undermountain they were definetly thanking me that the NPC I made was a psychic warrior with tower of iron will.

Of course 2e psionic combat was much much cooler. The ability to crack into someone's mind and then be creative with what you did thereafter was not only more fun to roleplay but had much more style. Yet 3e psionic combat is still a force to be reckoned with.

That brings up the last variant - psionic warriors. Psionic warriors are actually a very cool class. The actual psionic abilities they get, again blow chunks. However, the bonus feats they get open up a host of cool abilities through psionic feats. Considering they get all of the versatility of using powers that a psion gets, a BAB one step below fighter and almost as many feats as a fighter (only 2 total less), they have a lot of opportunity. Lastly they become as effective against nonpsionic opponents as a psion does.

Hope that helps answer the orignal question.

 

[green slime]

The way I see Psionic combat is that it prevents characters from just dabbling into a psionic class. The risk of then getting your brain fried when you eventually make contact with Illithids is too great.

Psychic warriors usually need a large number of reserve power points, and so it does drain from their capabilities. At least in the low to middle levels.

Another thing is that a Psion could use Psychofeedback to get a unbeatable Will DC on Id Insinuation or Ego Whip... Unfortunately they don't do much damage...1d2 Strength and 1d4 Dexterity respectively...

This is why I would have liked a new write up in the psionics handbook giving the Illithids a more psionic definition with power points and such like.