D&D 5E Psion Hit Dice

[Umbran]

I don't know that a setting that isn't currently in print is a good basis for the design of a general game element.

 

[Aldarc]

I don't know that a setting that isn't currently in print is a good basis for the design of a general game element.

Counterpoint: a lot of the feedback on the playtest Artificer designs pertained to Eberron despite not being in print.

 

[Umbran]

Counterpoint: a lot of the feedback on the playtest Artificer designs pertained to Eberron despite not being in print.

Feedback is not design. Whatever the feedback, once the Artificer left the Eberron book, it needed to be balanced with the rest of the classes.

I expect that folks want a psion to have magical oomph comparable to a Wizard. Then it ought to have hit points comparable to a Wizard, too, Dark Sun or not. If you are okay with lesser magical power, we can talk about higher hit points.

 

[Bolares]

I don't know that a setting that isn't currently in print is a good basis for the design of a general game element.

I think this depends on how important is the class to the specific setting, and how probable it is that the setting will be published. Artificers are central to Eberron, so you couldn't really design an artificer without Eberron in mind. And Eberron was always going to be one of the first settings published for 5e so that made the choice of designing it with Eberron in mind easier.

 

[Umbran]

I think this depends on how important is the class to the specific setting, and how probable it is that the setting will be published. Artificers are central to Eberron, so you couldn't really design an artificer without Eberron in mind. And Eberron was always going to be one of the first settings published for 5e so that made the choice of designing it with Eberron in mind easier.

"...once the Artificer left the Eberron book..."

If you publish a Dark Sun book, you can give the psion bazillion sided hit dice in that book. I don't care. Have a ball. Make every psion god-emperor in that book, if you want.

If it is intended for general use with the other classes in other settings, it out to be balanced with all the other classes. The mere existence of a setting that many are not playing is not an excuse for general design choices.

 

[Aldarc]

Feedback is not design. Whatever the feedback, once the Artificer left the Eberron book, it needed to be balanced with the rest of the classes.

No, but a lot of the subsequent iterations of actual design became oriented around emulating and approximating an Eberron-style artificer.

I expect that folks want a psion to have magical oomph comparable to a Wizard. Then it ought to have hit points comparable to a Wizard, too, Dark Sun or not. If you are okay with lesser magical power, we can talk about higher hit points.

Agreed.

 

[Bolares]

"...once the Artificer left the Eberron book..."

If you publish a Dark Sun book, you can give the psion bazillion sided hit dice in that book. I don't care. Have a ball. Make every psion god-emperor in that book, if you want.

If it is intended for general use with the other classes in other settings, it out to be balanced with all the other classes. The mere existence of a setting that many are not playing is not an excuse for general design choices.

Sure, I'm not disagreeing with you. All classes have to be balanced for general use. Being published with Eberron in mind was never a reason to make the Artificer not work everywhere else. What I was saying was that there could be reasons to design a class with an unpublished setting in mind, but that doesn't make it okay to ignore general use of the class in the design.

 

[TwoSix]

Thematically, psion has always felt closer to a backline caster type to me, so I'd go for a d6.

Although I'd give them heavy armor proficiency in a nod to the "psionic power works in armor" concept.

 

[Umbran]

No, but a lot of the subsequent iterations of actual design became oriented around emulating and approximating an Eberron-style artificer.

Sure. But interestingly, the Artificer didn't come out badly balanced with respect to other classes.

 

[Umbran]

What I was saying was that there could be reasons to design a class with an unpublished setting in mind, but that doesn't make it okay to ignore general use of the class in the design.

I think you've taken my comment out of its context of hit dice and power balance, and generalized it without my consent.

Key in this was my choice of "excuse" - I intended this to imply that something in the design is kind of hinkey, but we wave our hands and say, "But Dark Sun!" so we let it slide.

You don't need an excuse to say, "Let us make a Psion that's generally like that from Dark Sun." You need an excuse to make that class overpowered with respect to standard classes.