Psion power balance questions

[Videssian]

Actually, it doesn't have much use if he's spending all his time hiding in the sphere from foes who don't have the means to attack him there.

True.. and as it happened, he didn't even cast it last session..

(Though, come to think of it, another really nasty technique for getting him just occured to me: use burrowing power on an NPC to put an astral construct in the sphere with him.)

Oh, I have that trick covered

 

[Videssian]

So what's your DM complaining about? Or is it another player?

Neither really.. just a desire on his part to make sure that the rules are adhered to the way they're written, which I certainly respect.

 

[Videssian]

My group's interpretation of the spell is that it literally prevents the passage of anything, including all spells, in the manner that I described in my post. I was assuming that this was the default understanding of how the two spells worked. Perhaps I was wrong. If so, then the DM really has NO grounds to be claiming that he can't touch touch the Psion and that the combo is overpowered. See, there's this spell called Acid Fog, and this other one called Mind Fog. And there's that spell that allows you to summon creatures, even on the other side of walls of force. Oh yeah, and don't forget Cloud Kill and Destruction. If the telekinetic sphere only blocks spells that require line of effect and physical movement there are SO MANY OPTIONS, even at low levels.

Oh wait, I see what you're saying. You're interpreting the description of wall of force to imply that a Wall of Force blocks all spells, even those that don't require line of effect? Weird. I don't think our group ever used Wall of Force like that. We only had it block line of effect spells, since allowing it to block line of sight spells never made much sense to us. If that's the case, I can understand your argument.

Exactly.. it doesn't prevent teleportation (or things from being teleported in, nor does it block line of sight).. I knew there were ways around it, it just seemed like such a nice combination of things that I just HAD to try it in play..

 

[Videssian]

line of sight

Oops.. just reread.. while it doesn't block Line of Sight, it does block Line of Effect.. which we've already run into actually (with me wanting to do something it turns out I couldn't do the way I wanted)..

Note that certain monster attacks may penetrate the sphere.. it doesn't exist on the astral, after all (which is why teleport works through it).

'course.. I have that covered too.. I think... (yes, the obvious, but it permits more than you might think, if the description is read carefully.. and if Nail doesn't know what I'm thinking about, I'll show him next session.. none of you give it away please.. *grins*)

 

[Nail]

Actually, it doesn't have much use if he's spending all his time hiding in the sphere from foes who don't have the means to attack him there.

Again, the Psi 16 in question (played by the very capable player Videssian) has the burrowing Power feat. He makes the sphere just large enough to hold himself, then uses Burrowing Power to manifest powers on his enemies outside the sphere. He's hardly hiding=> his enemies know exactly where he is, and how much damage he is doing.

As there is no room inside the sphere for another creature (i.e. the sphere has a 5 ft diameter, and as a Medium sized creature, the psion takes up all of that space), neither "teleporting in" nor "summoning a monster into" the sphere is possible. You can't do either into a square occupied by another creature.

As an aside, this psion also has the feat Extraordinary Concentration, which allows him to move the sphere as a move action with a concentration check....or even as a swift action. Yoowsa! Who said the psion was "immobile", again?

Why am I getting images of Magneto stuck in my head?

 

[Nail]

So what's your DM complaining about? Or is it another player?

I'm (currently) the DM of Videssian (the Psion player).

And, to be clear, I'm concerned about game balance.....as well as interested in other's opinions on the subject. Concerned != "freaked out"

[EDIT] Also, our group has a somewhat liberal acceptance of new rules, etc. I'm neither in the position nor the inclination to force the group to adopt house rules to "fix" the psion. Following the rules as written is easy (and fair) enough, though.

 

[Nail]

'course.. I have that covered too.. I think... (yes, the obvious, but it permits more than you might think, if the description is read carefully.. and if Nail doesn't know what I'm thinking about, I'll show him next session.. none of you give it away please.. *grins*)

Uh-oh! (...runs screaming for the hills...)

 

[Plane Sailing]

As there is no room inside the sphere for another creature (i.e. the sphere has a 5 ft diameter, and as a Medium sized creature, the psion takes up all of that space), neither "teleporting in" nor "summoning a monster into" the sphere is possible. You can't do either into a square occupied by another creature.

I think that the text quoted by Scion quite clearly explains that he cannot create it at less than 15ft diameter if you want to follow the rules precisely, which leaves plenty of room to summon things next to him.

However, even if for some reason you allow him to make it 5ft diameter you could still teleport in nasties which are three sizes smaller than him, or that are incorporeal, since either of those could occupy his space quite nicely.

Cheers

 

[KarinsDad]

I think there is an additional power to the Psionic Telekinetic Sphere. It makes everything weigh significantly less. There is no reason to believe it can't be physically moved, from the outside or the inside.

Yes there is.

Psionic Telekinetic Sphere is based on Telekinetic Sphere which is based on Resilient Sphere which is immobile. None of these add movement to the Sphere with the exception of what the caster of Telekinetic Sphere can do by concentrating.


On the subject of Teleporting, Resilient Sphere states "Nothing can pass through the sphere, inside or out, though the subject can breathe normally."

Just because you can use a different dimension to Teleport past a Wall of Force does not mean that you can do the same with a Resilient Sphere. This is an assumption not supported by the spell itself and I cannot find a rule that states that you can Teleport / Dimension Door past Force Effects.


Personally, I like using Gaze effects against this tactic assuming that the DM rules that Resilient Sphere works just like Wall of Force (i.e. you can teleport in, you can gaze, etc.). If you look away, you cannot cast in that direction due to lack of Line of Sight.

Various Mist/Fog spells work well too. He cannot manifest against anyone more than 5 feet (+ radius of sphere) away, nor can he move up to them and manifest in a single round (shy of Schism or Quickened Powers or a psicrystal doing his movement concentration for him via Solicit Psicrystal). And Solid Fog should stop him in his tracks.

Historically, we have had a lot of nasty situations get diffused in our campaigns due to a timely use of Obscuring Mist.

I also like the concept of a "Readied Cloudkill" if the opponent knows that he uses this tactic. Filling up the Sphere with deadly gas can be nasty.

 

[Scion]

As far as I can recall force effects on the prime do not extend into the astral plane where teleportation occurs. So, teleport pulls you out of the prime in one spot and puts you back in another but at no point did you have to move 'through' the spheres edge.

Plus, if you consider the sphere a similar force effect to a wall of force then you can use a simple escape artist check (dc 120) to get inside.