Psion Powers Known

[Crothian]

How can you compare the Psion's 36 to the Sorcerer's 43?

Psions are more flexible in what the cast since they have points and not X at each spell level. That is why they have less powers then the sorcerer.

 

[Thanee]

No lo contendre - when making that post, I wasn't referencing power at all; just flexibility.

Okay, just wanted to point out, that flexibility has to come at a price and for those spells it definitely does.

Even more fun, if you map out a psion's power points to equivalent spell levels, you might find something interesting - a Psion's Power Point progression matches more closely to a wizard's spells-per-day than it does to a Sorceror's.

Yeah, that's definitely right. I'm quite aware of that.

The Psion deserves a little bit more flexibility for the power drop, just as the Wizard does.

Yes, a little bit.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

That is why they have less powers then the sorcerer.

Now, if they actually had less (effectively)... but in fact, they simply have more!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Michael Tree]

Besides, they're not limited to 36 powers. The expanded knowledge feat gives them a new power, which can even be a discipline power or psywarrior power otherwise barred to them.

 

[Staffan]

Besides, they're not limited to 36 powers. The expanded knowledge feat gives them a new power, which can even be a discipline power or psywarrior power otherwise barred to them.

I'm pretty sure there's a feat in Complete Arcane that gives a sorcerer (or bard) access to another spell as well, with the same "1 level lower than your max" limitation as Expanded Knowledge. At least there was one in Tome & Blood. Though that feat doesn't let them branch out beyond what they could normally do.

 

[Jack Simth]

Besides, they're not limited to 36 powers. The expanded knowledge feat gives them a new power, which can even be a discipline power or psywarrior power otherwise barred to them.

They can also research them, using no feats, but at an EXP cost:

ADDING POWERS

Psionic characters can learn new powers when they attain a new level. A psion can learn any power from the psion/wilder list and powers from his chosen discipline's list. A wilder can learn any power from the psion/wilder list. A psychic warrior can learn any power from the psychic warrior list. Powers Gained at a New Level: Psions and other psionic characters perform a certain amount of personal meditation between adventures in an attempt to unlock latent mental abilities. Each time a psionic character attains a new level, he or she learns additional powers according to his class description. Psions, psychic warriors, and wilders learn new powers of their choice in this fashion. These powers represent abilities unlocked from latency. The powers must be of levels the characters can manifest.

Independent Research: A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one. If characters are allowed to develop new powers, use these guidelines to handle the situation.
Any kind of manifester can create a new power. The research involved requires access to a retreat conducive to uninterrupted meditation. Research involves an expenditure of 200 XP per week and takes one week per level of the power. At the end of that time, the character makes a Psicraft check (DC 10 + spell level). If that check succeeds, the character learns the new power if her research produced a viable power. If the check fails, the character must go through the research process again if she wants to keep trying.

Although it's not spelled out that independant research skips the powers known cap, there isn't really anything that says a Psion can't know more powers than is listed.


Also, note that the Psicraft check is kinda pointless - at first level, a psion will (usually) have 4 ranks in psicraft, and 3 or 4 points of intelligence bonus, and can thus take 10 for 17 or 18 (1st level powers have DC 11). At 3rd, that's 6 ranks, probably the same INT bonus; can take 10 for 19 or 20 (2nd level powers have DC 12). After about level 6, a Psion taking max ranks in Psicraft with an Int mod of 4 will be able to research, with no random chance of failure, any power on the list that the psion would be able to manifest (9 (ranks) + 4 (int) +1 (minimum roll) = 14; a level 4 power has DC 14). With Skill Focus(Psicraft), that drops all the way down to level 1: 4 (ranks) + 3 (Skill Focus) + 3 (Int Bonus) + 1 (minimum roll on d20) = 11; DC for level-1 power is 11.

 

[Rystil Arden]

They can also research them, using no feats, but at an EXP cost:

Although it's not spelled out that independant research skips the powers known cap, there isn't really anything that says a Psion can't know more powers than is listed.


Also, note that the Psicraft check is kinda pointless - at first level, a psion will (usually) have 4 ranks in psicraft, and 3 or 4 points of intelligence bonus, and can thus take 10 for 17 or 18 (1st level powers have DC 11). At 3rd, that's 6 ranks, probably the same INT bonus; can take 10 for 19 or 20 (2nd level powers have DC 12). After about level 6, a Psion taking max ranks in Psicraft with an Int mod of 4 will be able to research, with no random chance of failure, any power on the list that the psion would be able to manifest (9 (ranks) + 4 (int) +1 (minimum roll) = 14; a level 4 power has DC 14). With Skill Focus(Psicraft), that drops all the way down to level 1: 4 (ranks) + 3 (Skill Focus) + 3 (Int Bonus) + 1 (minimum roll on d20) = 11; DC for level-1 power is 11.

Wow, you've got selective vision. Let's go past where you cut off your quote:

The number of powers that all psionic classes can know is strictly limited; manifesters can never exceed those limits even through the research of original powers.

 

[Jack Simth]

I'm not finding that in the SRD; where's it from?

Edit: Here; I'll even give you a link to the web page I ripped the SRD quote from: Right Here; no mention of the cap, either way.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'm not finding that in the SRD; where's it from?

XPH, the paragraph after where you stopped.

 

[Jack Simth]

I'm not so familiar with the shorthand; XPH?