Psionics Coming Soon To D&D?

WotC's Mike Mearls has hinted that we may be able to expect some psionics content soon, possibly in the Unearthed Arcana column. He was asked by Ethan Clow on the Twitterweb "any chance we might see a Psionic class for 5e soon? Perhaps in unearthed arcana?" to which he replied "wouldn't be surprised. I *might* have had a couple prior edition psionics books on my desk last week..." (Thanks to Wolf Hunter for the scoop).

 

[Fabio Andrea Rossi]

The thing with psionics having a different mechanism than wizards/clerics/etc is that almost by definition it will either be better or it will be worse.

While this is true, in my experience psionics are a matter of hate or love by players and DMs: unless the gap is huge, and in that case I would agree with you, I don't think there will be a nobody-everybody want to play situation. Someone will love the concept, someone will hate it (and will probably prefer not to have psionics at the table no matter what).

(not answering to you directly anymore): The point to me is differentiating enough how psionics work in a mechanics and fluff. Both are needed as one should influence the other. Of course the "magic reskin" model can work...if what I want is psionics as in "another kind of magic".

To me, I could bear with some unbalance (in 5E more than ever, as we already have some, even if surprisingly limited) if it brings to the table something new and different.

Also, psionics need not to be binary: I liked one of the proposals to integrate it in a D&D world present in some old book, probably 2E, where psionics are a small minority in a world where magic users would feel menaced by them (due to mechanical diversity, fluff influencing crunch...or the other way around) and thus psionics are either secret societies or vagabond freaks.

 

[Mephista]

...

Psionics are one of the defining features of Dark Sun?

Psionics is inside of Dark Sun, yes, but it is not exclusive like the Artificer is to Eberron. So, a good psionic set of class/subclass/feat should have to take a setting neutral standpoint, not be a Dark Suns thing.

Andre Norton's Witch World books had both magic and psionics, and I definitely consider them classic swords and sorcery.

Witch World has always combined sci-fi elements with high fantasy - I wouldn't consider that "old school sword and sorcery" at all. But then we're getting into a semanitcs argument, so shall we agree to disagree?

 

[fuindordm]

The thing with psionics having a different mechanism than wizards/clerics/etc is that almost by definition it will either be better or it will be worse.

(the likelihood of it being comparably powerful as in "same same but different" is of course theoretically possible, but really slim to none)

I can't really agree with this! There are several levers to pull when designing a "special powers" subsystem, and all you need to do is make sure that the different subsystems appeal to different styles of play.

So far, in the core rules, we don't have much variation on the spell slot theme:

Divine: all spells known, prepare spells, spell list has defensive slant
Wizard: all spells potentially known, prepare spells, spell list has offensive slant
Sorcerer: few spells known, spell list has offensive slant, can boost spells and spell slots are fungible
Bard: moderate spells known, spell list has defensive slant

But all of these share the same slot progression, the same hard cap on spells > 6th level, and the same dependence on V/S/M components. All three can be dialed up or down for a different game play experience.

For example, someone might think the most important feature of a psionics system is that even a low-level psionic can go nova with their highest-level powers. Then we might blow the cap on 6th level and higher powers, and introduce higher-level powers more quickly. What is the fair cost of this increase in power? We can dial down the number of spell slots (or equivalent resource) drastically. Then there is the lack of components--another clear advantage that has to be balanced. So one possible framework for psionics on the spell slot model becomes:

Few powers known, powers list has defensive slant, no cap on use of high-level powers, slow slot progression compared to arcane/divine classes, no V/S/M components, powers can be boosted, slots are fungible.

So on the face of it it's similar to the sorcerer (with psi points, metapsionics, fungible slots) but it also has some unique features that drastically change the experience of the class (very different spell list, can burn points/slots to fuel multiple high-level powers if needed, no components for any spell).

Returning to your point, is this a power system that is so much better than the standard classes that players will flock to it? I don't think so. And many other combinations are possible.

 

[Mephista]

While this is true, in my experience psionics are a matter of hate or love by players and DMs: unless the gap is huge, and in that case I would agree with you, I don't think there will be a nobody-everybody want to play situation. Someone will love the concept, someone will hate it (and will probably prefer not to have psionics at the table no matter what).

I do agree with this to an extent. However, I find that if its too different, what will end up happening is that there will end up with a blanket ban on it on a lot of tables, including the Adventure League. And that's something that would be detrimental - we don't want to aggravate the love-hate situation.

To me, I could bear with some unbalance (in 5E more than ever, as we already have some, even if surprisingly limited) if it brings to the table something new and different.

While there won't be perfect balance, I feel compelled to point out that "some" imbalance will be inflamed, as psionics are fairly controversial in a lot of games. A large imbalance will be problematic - even if that imbalance varies between how GMs run things, leading to issues. So, the balance should be pretty close by necessity.

Also, psionics need not to be binary: I liked one of the proposals to integrate it in a D&D world present in some old book, probably 2E, where psionics are a small minority in a world where magic users would feel menaced by them (due to mechanical diversity, fluff influencing crunch...or the other way around) and thus psionics are either secret societies or vagabond freaks.

That's a setting concern, though, not a class concern. Greyhawk, Dark Suns, Forgotten Realms, and Eberron all have psionic people established in their lore. I'm sure others do as well. Trying to establish something definite about menacing between magic types by default is unusual and odd.

 

[Mephista]

I don't know anymore about this - to me, it sounds like people just want "something different" even though we have point systems for magic. I'm really beginning to feel that its a marketing thing more than a unique class.

 

[SkidAce]

Andre Norton's Witch World books had both magic and psionics, and I definitely consider them classic swords and sorcery.

YES, thanks....why didn't I mention that as an example...

/tangent

Anyone remember when Andre Norton was authoring as Andrew North to avoid the stigma of being a female author in sci fi?

 

[SkidAce]

Also, psionics need not to be binary: I liked one of the proposals to integrate it in a D&D world present in some old book, probably 2E, where psionics are a small minority in a world where magic users would feel menaced by them (due to mechanical diversity, fluff influencing crunch...or the other way around) and thus psionics are either secret societies or vagabond freaks.

Those following the thread may have seen how I posted some of the background of my world. The above is exactly where I head.


Psionics is like the Deryni in the sci/fantasy series by Kurtz? Hated persecuted, shunned.

Magic users don't understand it, clerics don't trust it....so we get the classic trope of "burn it burn it". But in a society that mostly accepts clercis and "most" wizards.

"But not thos mind controlling ones. That unnnartural...take your will right away from yah...why one of them made me steal cousin Bob's goats and seel them, I swear.."

 

[SkidAce]

I don't know anymore about this - to me, it sounds like people just want "something different" even though we have point systems for magic. I'm really beginning to feel that its a marketing thing more than a unique class.

I don't agree.

"I" understand what I want...but am having difficulty explaining it. Or perhaps, as I have said, I'm in the minority.


But I do know this, regardless of what conclusions and debates or motives for my needs anyone chooses to discern.

1. Don't want re-fluffed magic (in play it does not illustrated the difference I expect enough).
2. I want something I can add in a spoonful at a time (like a wild talent, granted by an encounter with a psychic boulder).
3. I like the old psuedo science feel (that's part of its attraction, could it be super science, from a world far far away?, each table's call (read The Many Colored Land by Julian May))

YMMV.

 

[steeldragons]

I've GOT it!

Something that makes psionics not "just another magic", something that is particularly 5e, something that will make the class unique/distinct mechanic enough to justify a class of its own [as opposed to existing class subclasses like Psion Sorcerers and Psychic Warrior Fighters]...

Part of the fluff/flavor of psychic powers is that they don't have any material components. I think everyone is on the same page with that, no?

But beyond that, what does a psychic character do when using/manifesting their powers? They stare intently or the put hands to their temples or a corona of ionized air flares or fluctuates around their head or glows in their eyes...They have to "center" their mind. They have to focus their mental energies...They have to CONCENTRATE!

Concentration is a prevalent mechanic of 5e used to define many spells across all spell lists.

Give a psionic/psychic class a Concentration feature. Maybe not right away/level 1. Maybe a 3rd level when they choose a subclass....maybe at 5th level as a big boost ability, like a Mental "Extra Attack"...Let them have/maintain concentration on multiple power/effects at once! No mere "spell/magic caster" can do that...at least not consistently, with all/any of their powers.

I don't know how it would work...make it dependent on their Int. mod. comes to mind...or an ability [Cha or Int] check to initiate a second power while a first one is ongoing...Maybe scaling with level? Up to 2 powers at once at X level, 3 powers/effects at once at Y level, etc...It could go a couple of different ways.

But it seems to me, for the future of psionics in 5e D&D, the use and manipulation of the Concentration mechanic may be the golden key to meet [or satisfy] the most demands of the most people.

Thoughts? [heh heh. Psionics thread...asking for thoughts...cute. ehem. Carry on.]

 

[SkidAce]

...

But it seems to me, for the future of psionics in 5e D&D, the use and manipulation of the Concentration mechanic may be the golden key to meet [or satisfy] the most demands of the most people.

Thoughts? [heh heh. Psionics thread...asking for thoughts...cute. ehem. Carry on.]

Intriguing...