Psionics: Empower Power?

[NCSUCodeMonkey]

Transcend Limits

Thanks, that was useful.

Anybody had any balance issues they might want to warn me about ahead of time?

Balance goes out the window really quickly if you allow Transcend Limits from ITCK. It basically raises the number of points you can spend on a power by 2 each time you take it. Combined with Overpower from Mind's Eye (like Fortify but x2 instead of x1.25), it's absolutely disgusting. Admittedly, the combination is total cheese and should be eliminated.

All you have to do is take resculpt mind, fortify power, overpower, and then transcend limits as many times as you can. Then throw down Mass Concussion when things get nasty. I've made up 14th level psions who average around 70 points of damage with no save.

NCSUCodeMonkey

 

[Kraedin]

I can make a 14th level wizard that averages 105 damage. So?

 

[NCSUCodeMonkey]

I can make a 14th level wizard that averages 105 damage. So?

Ah well then, I suppose it's not so amazing. I was just going on the 'no save' factor. Of course, if the psion wanted to spend the same number of points and allow a save, he could average 136 points of damage (before the save, of course).

For the curious, that's True Concussion Overpowered twice and Fortified twice. So a 14th level psion can spend 29 points on a power using Transcend limits a bunch.

So since wizards can average 105 damage, I suppose it's not too far off...

NCSUCodeMonkey

 

[Staffan]

One problem I can foresee with Fortify (and variants) for psionics is that it becomes more efficient to use Fortify than taking 6th level powers and higher. A 6th level single-target damage power does 11d6 damage, for an average of 38.5. A 5th level single-target power that is Fortified once (+25%) costs the same amount of PP, does 39.375 points of damage. On the other hand, the save DC is one point higher with the 6th level power which might even things out.

After some counting, I find that the lower save DC does even things out. The effective loss of damage from the lower DC is almost one point (5% chance of losing 50% of 39.375), which is more than the difference between the average damages.

Looking at base damage (ignoring save DC), we can see that the most efficient use at the top level would be a 7th level power fortified twice (1.5*13 is more than both 1.25*15 and 1.75*11), for an average pre-save damage of 68.25 points. The average damage from a pure 9th level power would be 59.5. However, two points lower save DC means we have a 10% chance of losing 50% damage, leading to a net damage of 64.8 - still a little better than the 9th level power, but on the other hand you did spend a feat - and how much difference does 5 points make at 18th level anyway?

 

[HeavyG]

For the curious, that's True Concussion Overpowered twice and Fortified twice. So a 14th level psion can spend 29 points on a power using Transcend limits a bunch.

Wouldn't you need to take Transcend Limit 8 times to do that ?

What level would you need to be to have 10 feats ?

 

[Kraedin]

You can have 11 feats at 14th level with a psion.

5 feats from levels
+ 1 feat from human
+ 5 feats from Resculpt Mind

-1 feat for Resculpt Mind
-1 feat for Fortify Power
-8 feats for Trancend Limits
-1 feat for Overpower.

 

[Kraedin]

It should be noted that a 14th level psion would have 124 base pp + 57 bonus pp (assuming 26 in prime stat) for 181 pp. Spending 29 pp per manifestation gives you SIX manifestations a day.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I found that a 14th-level savant can be scary, using ITCK (but not Transcend Limits!).

Mass Concussion, scaled to 12d4 damage, and Maximized. 48 damage, no save. Be sure to drink a Potion of Haste beforehand...

I also found that a 16th-level sorcerer could cast maximized Cone of Cold for about 120 damage, whereas the psion could use a scaled mazimized Mass Concussion for 90 damage with no save. IMO these two balance out, and power scaling costs the psion a lot (not only does he not get the sorc's free scaling, but he gets fewer spell-level-equivalents).

 

[NCSUCodeMonkey]

It should be noted that a 14th level psion would have 124 base pp + 57 bonus pp (assuming 26 in prime stat) for 181 pp. Spending 29 pp per manifestation gives you SIX manifestations a day.

Even without a 26 in your prime stat, it's pretty nasty. If you give up a few transcend limits there are tons of feats that increase your power point total. Inner Strength, Trigger Power (indirectly), Creature Capacitor, Body Fuel, Psychic Meditation (Third Eye), etc. My personal favorite is Dull Grey Ioun stones, perfect for 1st level powes that get thrown out all the time.

I personally wonder why WotC has taken such a love for Psion feats. It's kindof cool, I guess, it gives psions a definate flavor that distinguishes them from arcane and divine. However, having so many out there does tend to leave some big holes in the rules. (Not even talking about the non-WotC ITCK, but just Mind's Eye, etc)

NCSUCodeMonkey

 

[reiella]

Big reason why there are so many 'love' feats for Psions is kinda sad.

It's a way for them to 'fix' the problem that base Psions tend to have of not being so able to compete on the damage platform, and alot isn't really addressable as an errata (Resculpt Mind for instance).