D&D 5E Psionics in Tasha

[Crimson Longinus]

I want them to be there for narrative reasons. I think it's lame that a Cleric and a Wizard could end up with the same spells, or doing the same thing and both using the spell slot system. I don't even like the school of magic classification (a lot of them feel like fictional classification, but others feel arbitrarily meta in their classification).

I think the game would be more flavourful if Arcane Magic was better defined and had actual LIMITS to what it can do, and Divine Magic and Primal Magic and, eventually, Psionic, all had their clear field of expertise with very little overlap. I don't want to strictly go back to 'only Cleric can Heal', but maybe the expression of the healing would be different: for exemple, say a Cleric gets Healing Word and variations that work at a distance, an Arcane class uses Transmutation to repair damage on contact, and a Druid has improved variations on Goodberry (or like, a magical spring of healing water?) that take an action from the recipient but can be stocked up.

Stuff like that. They could even still all use the sacrosanct Spell Slot system (not a fan myself but whatever).

I also feel like a Cleric's Domain should have a bigger impact on their Spell List than it does now, at least twice what it is now.

But considering that this isn't what 5e is doing, I'm fine (if not enthused) with Psionic Spells.

I mean, sure, I don't really disagree with most of this. If your argument is that magic of different casters (or magic from different sources) should be more distinct, then yeah, I agree. But how it was presented in this thread was that psionics should be fundamentally distinct from magic, and with that I don't agree.

Furthermore, I think the spell slot system is fine framework, and I don't mind all classes using it and spells. I think the differentiation should mostly happen on the spell list level. Like I was contemplating writing bespoke spell lists for clerics of different deities in my setting. There of course can be some variation in how the slots are acquired, whether the spells need to be prepared etc. For example psionic magic definitely shouldn't require preparing spells.

 

[Mirtek]

I am in the camp of full psionic-magic-transparency. Dispell magic should counter psionics, spell resistance should defend against it, etc.

 

[Gradine]

I am cool with psionic-magic transparency. What I don't want is to see a psionic power list that is full of like "Grease, Psionic", "Knock, Psionic" and "Generic Energy Blast" that 3.X took it.

 

[Wolfram stout]

When I think Fantasy Psionics, I think of the Kurtz Deryni books. And while it has been a couple of decades since I read them (Sadly not an exaggeration) I remember them using material components (cubes to set up wards and communication "powers") and I am pretty sure some of the powers used verbal chants.

I would hope the Warlock build would be the base chassis not the Wizard: they could flavor them as Disciplines and Powers if the want, but spells would not ruin it for me.

Wolfram

 

[Undrave]

I liked the psi-die quite a bit. It added a neat mechanic that made it feel different without requiring a giant new susbsystem.

They should have at least kept the Wild Talent feats :/

 

[Undrave]

I mean, sure, I don't really disagree with most of this. If your argument is that magic of different casters (or magic from different sources) should be more distinct, then yeah, I agree. But how it was presented in this thread was that psionics should be fundamentally distinct from magic, and with that I don't agree.

If Psionic has no difference then how is it not just the Enchantment school of magic?

 

[DND_Reborn]

I am in the camp of full psionic-magic-transparency. Dispell magic should counter psionics, spell resistance should defend against it, etc.

A compromise I could see would be dispel magic and counterspell might work against psionic powers, but not psionic attacks or defenses. Of course, wizards et al. could create spells to protect them from psionic attack, but the point would be dispel magic and counterspell won't.

I would hope the Warlock build would be the base chassis not the Wizard: they could flavor them as Disciplines and Powers if the want

I agree. I would have made sense if they insist on "spell"-psionics and it would provide a second class, using a system people are familiar with.

But anyway, as someone else said, they basically went with the system the people who were move vocal about getting psionics didn't want because there was no consensus on how to do it--I'm not happy about it, but I don't blame them for it...

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

If Psionic has no difference then how is it not just the Enchantment school of magic?

It depends how magic works in your setting.

In my game, spells define what happens, not how the substance of the magic, which is instead defined by class/subclass. A wizards and a light cleric can both cast fireball, but they're different types of fireballs. One is a cast from a formula, pressed into the wizard's mind. The other is the result of the cleric begging his/her patron for help. Likewise, an enchanter and a psionic sorcerer can both cast charm person, but its a different type of charm person.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If Psionic has no difference then how is it not just the Enchantment school of magic?

You tell me! And without mechanics! There first must be some clear and sensible thematic and metaphysical difference, only then we can start to think whether representing that mechanically is worth it.

Now people have said it is using innate power, so yeah maybe, but don't sorcerers use their innate power too? So are all sorcerers psions? And yes, if it is just 'mental magic' then that's fine, but that is indeed just one thing one can do with magic, not a difference source of magic, let alone something other than magic.

 

[Maxperson]

I didn't realize all spells in 5e had components. Psychic spells in PF don't have verbal or somatic components (and the material ones are expensive ones that only fit certain uses).

All spells in 5e don't have to. I can't think of one that doesn't have any, but if there are a few, those would be examples of specific beats general. In general, spells have components.