Psionics: Psion and 211 powers converted from Pathfinder

[Yaarel]

There are mainly two kinds of illusion spells. The subjective ‘phantasm’ that is in the mind of the target only, versus the objective ‘glamer’ that is perceptible to any and all onlookers. For example, the ‘Phantasmal Force’ spell is a clear example of a subjective illusion. ‘Invisibility’ is an example of an objective illusion.

Essentially, all of the subjective illusions belong the Telepath.

All of the objective illusions are more like actually existing holograms, being constructed out of telekinetic energy or else telekinetically manipulating light and sound.

Along these lines, I would merge Psychokinesis and Metacreativity into the same archetype. The stuff of Metacreativity is made out of telekinetic force. So, a spell like Mage Armor, which is armor made out of ‘force’, belongs to the archetype that uses telekinesis and can also make things out of telekinetic ‘force’. Spells like Magic Missile, Unseen Servant, Wall of Force, Mordenkeinans Sword, and Fly, also belong to this archetype.

 

[Kryx]

What you're suggesting would be the same as suggesting combining the Wizard archetypes..

 

[Yaarel]

What you're suggesting would be the same as suggesting combining the Wizard archetypes..

Sure. The spell ‘schools’ need tweaking so they can organize the spells in a more thematic way. More like domains.

In this case, the Psionic disciplines are better at grouping tropes, than the Wizard schools are.

For the Wizard, it makes sense to combine all ‘mental effects’, Enchantment, subjective Illusion, and Telepathy into a single archetype. Call it all ‘Enchanter’ or ‘Telepath’.



Regarding the schools. Consider the Abjuration school. This is a useful descriptor for all ‘protective’ spells. But many of the spells that have the Abjuration descriptor also qualify for other descriptors, like Sanctuary (should also be Enchantment or Telepathy), Shield (should also be Evocation or Psychokinesis), Protection from Poison (should also be Transmutation or Psychometabolism), and so on.

Weirdly, if any spell deserves the Abjuration school it is healing spells, yet these spells lack it.

In 4e, each spell could have multiple descriptors/tags, and this is the only approach that makes sense to me.

 

[Yaarel]

Even if the goal is to translate the Pathfinder Psion into 5e, exactly, both good and bad, maybe still split off the Psi Crystal. Instead, make the Psi Crystal a specific spell, for the exact same reason that the Wizard finally split off the Find Familiar feature back into a separate spell.

That way, the Psi fans who love the crystal flavor can easily access it, while the Psi fans who are less enthusiastic dont have to deal with it.

 

[Yaarel]

About nomenclature. Break away from psionic technobabble. Just use the standard D&D term for standard concepts.

For example, the psionic disciplines.


Divination. Not clairesentience. The two terms mean exactly the same thing. Of the two, the term divination is reasonable, familiar, and official. Besides, a real psionic technobabbler would call it ‘esp’ (extra-sensory perception) and the person who does it an ‘esper’. In D&D land, just call it Divination.


Evocation. Not psychokinesis. I prefer psionics to focus on telekinesis as a force associating with the mind, perhaps an aspect of the fifth element, ether, ethereality, spirit, light, gravity, and so on. It seems telekinetic ‘force’ and arcane ‘force’ are the same thing. Telekinesis is an aspect of mentalism and subtle.

Thematically, I prefer psionics stay away from concrete elementalism (pyromancy, cryomancy-hydromancy, aeromancy, geomancy). At least split off elementalism into a separate archetype if a pyromancer or pyrokineticist is going to happen.

Note, the Players Handbook categorizes the Telekinesis spell as transmutation, ugh. Really, this and similar spells like Fly belong with other force effect spells like Wall of Force and Magic Missile, in the evocation category.

In any case, psionic Telekinesis is a subset of Evocation.


Teleportation. Not psychoportation. The 5e Players Handbook (203) defines ‘conjuration’ as:

"
Conjuration spells involve the transportation of objects and creatures from one location to another. Some spells summon creatures or objects to the caster's side, whereas others allow the caster to teleport to another location.

"

This meaning of conjuration is exactly what technobabble psychoportation means. So it is possible to call the discipline ‘conjuration’. That said, the psionic teleportation virtually never ‘summons’ creatures. The focus is more on jumping thru space-time. In any case, teleportation is a subset of conjuration. Possibly, teleportation is distinctive enough to count as its own category.


Illusion. Not metacreativity. Most illusion spells create an objective reality out of an ephemeral energy - be it telekinetic ‘force’, arcane ‘force’, astral ‘ectoplasm’, magical ‘energy’, ghostly ‘shadow’, ‘reality’ alteration, or whatever. All of these illusions are manifestations of telekinetic energy. Mind over matter. Note certain spells labeled ‘conjuration’ are actually objects that are ‘created out of nothing’. Really, these objects are created out of the will of the mind, and are by definition, made out of telekinetic energy. These quasi-real objects belong to the creative discipline of illusion.


Shapeshift. Not psychometabolism. Heh, the term psychometabolism is one of the most glaring examples of psionic technobabble. It is tempting to equate it with transmutation. Yet psychometabolism specifically refers to mind over body, a living being, and shifting body shapes. The term transmutation is too broad and wildly inconsistent. Shapeshift is the most familiar (and medieval-esque) term for the psychometabolic group of concepts.

D&D 5e categorizes healing spells as ‘evocation’ in the sense of ‘positive energy’. I get that, and support it. At the same time, healing spells also deserve the tags abjuration and shapeshift-psychometabolism. Healing is also its own distinctive category.



In sum, using D&D 5e terminology, the six psionic disciplines that tag and organize the spells are:

• Divination
• Enchantment
• Evocation
• Teleportation (a distinctive subset of conjuration)
• Illusion
• Shapeshift (a distinctive subset of transmutation and including healing)

 

[Kryx]

Fyi I moved Psicrystal to a power: "Meld Psicrystal". Very similar to before which was very similar to find familiar. I forgot to put it in the list of powers when I formatted so for now it's at the end of the list of powers (it takes a while to reformat).

As @Stunning Serendipity recommended and after talking to one of my players a pure point cost system is the best direction for the class imo. Psi points are currently the main differentiation from other classes and if it were removed something significant would have to be added to make up for the loss of versatility.

The psion uses Psi Limit just like the UA psion does. The psi limit is equivalent to the power level. I've changed all references to power level to psi points.
I made all powers show the psi point cost in the level line. They also augment based purely on psi points now instead of levels.

 

[Xohar17]

I agree on keeping the Psi points system, as well as using the ¨psionic technobabble¨. For me, is part of the flavor of D&D psionics, and if you are trying to adapt the 3.x Psion to 5e, is the right way to go IMHO. Also suggest to augment purely on PSi point cost using the system of the UA mystic.

EDIT: oops, It seems you already did that

 

[Kryx]

I agree on keeping the Psi points system, as well as using the ¨psionic technobabble¨. For me, is part of the flavor of D&D psionics, and if you are trying to adapt the 3.x Psion to 5e, is the right way to go IMHO.

Thanks for weighing in. I'm sure it'll be a personal choice as people are all coming from different editions with different versions of psionics and different expectations. For myself I think the points is pretty essential. Early on I did weigh converting them to the spell schools and reducing the "techonbable" (as in Divination instead of clairsentience), but it felt more hollow and the flavor felt lacking. Though I think the Diciplines becoming schools wouldn't be the end of the world as there are definitely a lot of similarities. We'll see what others think.

Also suggest to augment purely on PSi point cost using the system of the UA mystic.

EDIT: oops, It seems you already did that

Ya, I finished it today. It's not the same as the UA mystic, but more like 5e spells or augmentation from 3.X. UA mystic has this discipline system which is really unsatisfying imo.

The pure psi point system using the psi limit concept from the UA mystic should work really smoothly I think.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Yaarel]

For the sake of comparison, here is the standard 5e diction for a spell, and the current diction deriving from Pathfinder.



DISPEL MAGIC
3rd-level abjuration

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous

Choose one creature, object, or magical effect within range. Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends. For each spell of 4th level or higher on the target. make an ability check using your spellcasting ability. The DC equals 10 + the spell's level. On a successful check, the spell ends.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, you automatically end the effects of a spell on the target if the spell's level is equal to or less than the level of the spell slot you used.



DISPEL PSIONICS
3rd-level (5 psi points) psychokinesis

Classes: Psion
Sources: dispel psionics, dispel magic

Manifesting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Display: Visual
Duration: Instantaneous

Choose one creature, object, or magical effect within range. Any power or spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends. For each power or spell of 4th level or higher on the target, make an ability check using your psionic ability. The DC equals 10 + the power's level. On a successful check, the power ends.

Augment. If you spend additional psi points, you automatically end the effects of a power on the target if the power's was manifested with equal to or less than the amount of psi points you used. 6 psi points for 4th level, 7 for 5th, 9 for 6th, 10 for 7th, 11 for 8th, and 13 for 9th.



With the big picture in mind. If the goal is to integrate psionics as a normal and common part of D&D 5e, then I feel it is imperative to use standard nomenclature for standard concepts. Oppositely, if the goal is to divorce psionics from the rest of the D&D tradition, to evolve as an independent game with its own gaming terms, mechanical system, and settings, (maybe like Gammaworld is separate?), then keep using the unfamiliar psionic technobabble. (But if the goal is to divorce psionics from the rest of D&D, why bother converting psionics into 5e? Just stick with Pathfinder and evolve the psionics gaming system from there?) My hope is, psionics becomes a normal feature of the D&D experience.

So, if there is psionic spell that is exactly the same as a standard spell. Just use the standard spell. In this case, Dispel Psionics is identical in concept to Dispel Magic. Use the standard spell. That said, it seems possible to tweak the standard spell so it can function more smoothly with those classes and players who prefer to use the spell point system. A Wizard too, or any spellcasting class, can also use the spell point system. A Bard player might want to call the spells ‘songs’. A Cleric player might want to call the spells ‘prayers’. A Psion player might want to call the spells ‘manifestations’. But a spell is a spell is spell is a spell. It is ok for spell descriptions to use familiar technical jargon, while a world setting flavors it up.

Maybe format the spell as something like this.



DISPEL MAGIC
3rd-level (5-point)
abjuration, psychokinesis

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: V, S, D (visual)
Duration: Instantaneous

Choose one creature, object, or magical effect within range. Any spell of 3rd level (5 points) or lower on the target ends. For each spell of 4th level (6 points) or higher on the target, make an ability check using your spellcasting ability. The DC equals 10 + the spell's level. On a successful check, the spell ends.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level (6 points) or higher, you automatically end the effects of a spell on the target if the spell's level is equal to or less than the level of the spell slot you used.

 

[Kryx]

Ok, I've had enough. Rant post:
Your posts are laced with condescension and I'm tired of it.

You have literally chosen the worst possible power to compare. It is complicated because it has to handle transparency between psionics and magic as well as slots and psi points. If I wrote it with just psi points it could be as simple as dispel magic.
Instead please compare one of the other 210 powers that don't have to interact with spells on a slot level basis.
The suggested solution you put above would not work because you're asking the caster to convert points into slot levels when he augments. "you automatically end the effects of a spell on the target if the spell's level is equal to or less than the level of the spell slot you used." does not cover points at all.

As I said above: the system you want already exists in the Wizard. If you don't like the system I'm working on then simply don't use it. Please stop condescendingly telling me how you want to have your psionics system work.
Let's take some examples:

if the goal is to divorce psionics from the rest of the D&D tradition, to evolve as an independent game with its own gaming terms

That is not my goal. As I've stated above Psionics was never spells in 1e, 2e, 3e, 3.5, Pathfinder, or 4e. What you are asking for is a divorce from psionics, not the other way around.

mechanical system ... Just stick with Pathfinder ... then keep using the unfamiliar psionic technobabble

Ya, this is just "go back to the old system" garbage that will not be tolerated. A points based system for 5e exists in the DMG on page 288. These statements are just outright rude.

if there is psionic spell that is exactly the same as a standard spell. Just use the standard spell.

You've already suggested this and I've already told you that I'm not making psionics into spells. I'm not sure how much more clear I can be. The powers that mimic 5e spells in some cases are very similar - only replacing a few words. In other cases they are much less similar. Simply saying "go look at PHB page 123 and replace this and replace that" is not a viable option. Please stop suggesting it.

Dispel Psionics is identical in concept to Dispel Magic. Use the standard spell.

It's not the same! It has to target powers, not spells, and it has to account for psi points and spell slots! I'm not using spells as I've told you before.