Pulling out someone elses weapon.

[IceBear]

Ah, I see. That's silly, you should always be able to try a skill like pickpocket.

But, by the rules you can't. From the SRD:

Pick Pocket (DEX; TRAINED ONLY; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)

Thus, the implication that picking pockets is more than just grabbing an item and hoping no one notices.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

Nowhere in the pickpocket discription does it say that it's limited to small items, that's just the sample DC.

Then I wonder why sample descriptions of larger objects and their DCs weren't included. Maybe because pick pocket isn't appropriate for something larger?

Thank about it. You can pick pocket someone's wallet. You can't pick pocket the M4 from the back of a soldier,, but you can grab the M4. For objects larger than small, I like Icebear's solution.

Icebear, I guess as long as the fighter would have a harder time stealing an object, at least twice as hard, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

[Lord Ben]

Because they don't think outside the box!

I don't expect someone to be able to lift my tent from my backpack, but a sword is made to be drawn and it's in the open so I think pickpocket is the appropriate skill here. A bastard sword in a sheath can't be that hard to draw.

 

[IceBear]

The thing is, I *would* allow a pickpocket attempt to take the tent out of your backpack (with insane penalties of course), but it would happen outside of combat and take a couple of rounds (one to open your backpack, another to take the tent).

If the guy wanted to just take your backpack then I wouldn't use pickpocket - I'd just have him grab your backpack and try to rip it off your back

I guess I'm just biased by the name of the skill, but I see pickpockets as a steathy thing whereas you don't have to be stealthy to just take something.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

but a sword is made to be drawn and it's in the open so I think pickpocket is the appropriate skill here.

Yes. The sword is made to be drawn. However, it's also made to be drawn from your own body, and when you draw your sword, you usually aren't whipping your hips back and forth to keep your hand away from the hilt.

A bastard sword in a sheath can't be that hard to draw.

It is when you're a goblin and I don't want you to draw it, even if my hands are full.

 

[Lord Ben]

Well, it's *hard* but that's reflected in the DC of the skill. I still think pickpocket is the appropriate skill to use.

 

[IceBear]

Well, it's *hard* but that's reflected in the DC of the skill. I still think pickpocket is the appropriate skill to use.

As long as you realize that limits it to rogues to attempt this maneuver. That's cool with me, and makes some sense, I just could never make such a limiting ruling in my campaign and walk away with my skin intact

These are the same players in Shadowrun who always double fist their pistols because "it looks cool". When told that this makes their shots more difficult they say "We'll it'll be even cooler when I pull it off now won't it". With this attitude I have to be as flexible as possible with rulings

BTW - a DC of 20 isn't that hard for a decent rogue.

IceBear

 

[Lord Ben]

Hey, I'M a dual pistol wielder in Shadowrun!! Niro, with 14pts in Pistols, and 4 in assult rifles. Only 4 body, but a smokin 8 charisma! Walk confidently and carry a clipboard is my motto, it'll get you into more places then heavy security armor.

Suck on my dual predators corp skum!!
*bam* *bam* *bam* *bam* *bam* *bam*

 

[FANGO]

Pick Pockets is most definitely not the skill to use here. Pick Pockets is all about surreptitiously lifting small (no larger than a hat or loaf of brad, according to the PHB) objects from people who don't notice you before you actually lift them. I would allow a rogue to lift a dagger from someone while passing by them casually or something of the sort, but drawing a weapon from a sheath during combat would entail a touch attack to hit the sword or sword's hilt (there are rules for finding the AC of a worn item), and then some sort of opposed check probably in order to get it out, and it would take at least a standard action, I would say. It's most definitely not pick pockets though.

 

[Gromm]

Stealing someones weapon in combat is definately some variation on attacking objects or disarm, not any sort of pickpocket attempt. A great fighter should have a better chance of holding onto his weapons than someone who can't fight. I tend to favor the disarm rules, but they don't really work.
Pick Pockets doesn't work at all, since the skill is all about if anyone notices you, its not actually taking the object (ie its not a combat skill).
Its not easy to grab someones weapon without grappling them. To look at a modern day situation thats somewhat close, if you tried to say grab a cops gun, all he really needs to do to stop you is put his hand on it. If you tackle him and keep his arms at bay you've got a pretty good shot. At the point its really grappling though.