Pulse check on 1D&D excitement level

[Minigiant]

That's an interesting take.

I'm a veteran player, and I'm not looking for a system to "grip" me. I'm looking for great adventures and great DMing and great storytelling to grip me. I just need a lightweight, flexible system that allows that. 5e does, for the most part, although it has rough edges that are starting to annoy me.

Like I said upthread, I'm actually moving toward simpler RPGs.

Well isn't that my point.

5e isn't simple. It's too simple for those who want complex. It's too complex for those who want simple.

Being in the middle complexity with open spots is great at the start. But once you aren't a new person to TTRPGs, you realize the middlegrund is too hardcoded to shift either way greatly.

 

[Clint_L]

I'll take a contrarian view. (I know, surprise, right?). I've been drifting away from 5e because, well, I've been playing it for, what, nine years now. But I'm cautiously optimistic about One D&D. Sure, some of the playtest stuff is a mistake, but they are mistakes that suggests some design goals of which I approve.



I also run games for kids, and I've been switching them over to Five Torches Deep because 5e is just too much...too many rules, too many options...for these kids. (I may be working with younger kids; my groups are mostly 4th to 8th grade.).

One middle school D&D club (my own child is in this group) asked me to take over as DM because the kid who was doing it was struggling to herd the cats. I ran one session of FTD and they immediately ran out and bought it and are HUGE fans now.

So, yeah, if WotC wants me (us) to come back they're going to have to impress us.

The youngest I work with is 6th grade.

Were you running D&D through DDB? I've found it to be an invaluable tool both for the kids and for me to keep track of all the campaigns and characters.

 

[Stalker0]

If to

If you like 5e, why wouldn’t you buy it? It is just more 5e.

It’s an “overwrite” to 5e, it’s not really providing new stuff, just the old stuff reimagined. So if you don’t like the new flavor…why would you buy it?

 

[delericho]

Meh. Let me know when it's out and I'll decide whether to buy then. Until then, I'm not particularly interested.

 

[Bill Zebub]

5e isn't simple. It's too simple for those who want complex. It's too complex for those who want simple.

Being in the middle complexity with open spots is great at the start. But once you aren't a new person to TTRPGs, you realize the middlegrund is too hardcoded to shift either way greatly.

Is that what you experienced yourself, or are you theorizing that this is what's going on for masses of other people? D&D is awfully darned popular so I'm skeptical of a claim that it's not in most people's sweet spot.

You keep making these broad generalizations about other people who aren't here. I'm genuinely interested in what you (and others here) personally like and don't like, and why, and what you/they would like instead, and ideas for how to implement it. But, speaking for myself, I dismiss out of hand sweeping conjecture about what other people want.

 

[Clint_L]

Is that what you experienced yourself, or are you theorizing that this is what's going on for masses of other people? D&D is awfully darned popular so I'm skeptical of a claim that it's not in most people's sweet spot.

This. It's easy to project our own perspective and biases, but facts matter. Especially to the folks with skin in the game. If you're running a WotC/Hasbro and you've finally got what, by any objective measure, is an extremely popular version of D&D, why would you want to make big changes? You're not going to please everyone, and if you start making those big changes, you are much more likely to lose more people than you gain.

You don't want to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. You want to make that bird as comfortable as possible.

 

[Clint_L]

It’s an “overwrite” to 5e, it’s not really providing new stuff, just the old stuff reimagined. So if you don’t like the new flavor…why would you buy it?

You wouldn't. It's not for you. That's fine. No version of the game is going to work for everyone.

 

[Azzy]

Well isn't that my point.

5e isn't simple. It's too simple for those who want complex. It's too complex for those who want simple.

Being in the middle complexity with open spots is great at the start. But once you aren't a new person to TTRPGs, you realize the middlegrund is too hardcoded to shift either way greatly.

I'm definitely not new to TTRPGs, and 5e is my jam. I don't need anything more complex or less so.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

It’s an “overwrite” to 5e, it’s not really providing new stuff, just the old stuff reimagined. So if you don’t like the new flavor…why would you buy it?

Sure, just like why would you buy a book of new classes and races if you didn’t like those classes and races.

I don’t see it as an overwrite myself. Just more options. You can, and we have, played with ‘14 classes and playtest classes at the same table. So they need not be thought of as an “overwrite” as you say.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure, just like why would you buy a book of new classes and races if you didn’t like those classes and races.

I don’t see it as an overwrite myself. Just more options. You can, and we have, played with ‘14 classes and playtest classes at the same table. So they need not be thought of as an “overwrite” as you say.

If it weren't an overwrite, they would market it as a supplement and not a replacement, and they would give the 2024 classes different names.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I'd venture WotC doesn't care in the slightest how some players wish to define things as either an overwrite or a supplement. They're just making some books. And people who want them will buy them, and those that don't, won't. No different than every other book they've published.

 

[mamba]

If it weren't an overwrite, they would market it as a supplement and not a replacement, and they would give the 2024 classes different names.

It's an overwrite if you want it to be, an addition if you do not. Personally I'd take it as an overwrite.

 

[Bill Zebub]

It's an overwrite if you want it to be, an addition if you do not. Personally I'd take it as an overwrite.

I think it's a snarfle. Or possibly a therodox. Or even a hyperzlot.

Regardless, I'm going to decide whether or not to buy it once it's finished, based on the content.

 

[Sabathius42]

how is having the additional option for this driving away the casual crowd?

See the psion as an example of "dumbing down" a stand alone concept.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

If it weren't an overwrite, they would market it as a supplement and not a replacement, and they would give the 2024 classes different names.

I’m not suggesting WotC doesn’t see it as an overwrite, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with that. It’s not like you agree that 1D&D is still 5e, so I wouldn’t think you would be the one to tow the company line!

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I also run games for kids, and I've been switching them over to Five Torches Deep because 5e is just too much...too many rules, too many options...for these kids. (I may be working with younger kids; my groups are mostly 4th to 8th grade.

You do what you want, but we started our children and their friends on 4e at 8 years old (2nd grade), so I don’t think 5e is too complex for young kids. IME, it is how you teach it more than what you’re teaching.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Meh. Let me know when it's out and I'll decide whether to buy then. Until then, I'm not particularly interested.

That's the sanest take, honestly.

 

[Minigiant]

Is that what you experienced yourself, or are you theorizing that this is what's going on for masses of other people? D&D is awfully darned popular so I'm skeptical of a claim that it's not in most people's sweet spot.

It's what I'm seeing and hearing from other people.

I mean 5e is the most popular D&D game but I can't go 10 minutes online in 5e spaces without 5e fans whining about it. And now some of the people I taught 5e are complaining about it.

So when I come to ENworld and see people claim their is a massive lovedest for the mechanics and no one wants big changes to it, it feels like bizarroland

 

[mellored]

It's what I'm seeing and hearing from other people.

If you have no complaints, then you have nothing to post about.

Satisfied people are quiet people. And a room of 100 quiet people sounds the same as a room of 100,000 quiet people.

 

[Bill Zebub]

You do what you want, but we started our children and their friends on 4e at 8 years old (2nd grade), so I don’t think 5e is too complex for young kids. IME, it is how you teach it more than what you’re teaching.

Oh, we do play (have played) 5e and it works, including with my 6 year old (who plays a wolf accompanying the PCs). I guess I shouldn't have said "too much" for them. It's more that the whole RPG thing is so new and exciting that they don't need a lot of options to have fun. With a more streamlined game like FTD we spend more time actually adventuring.

Veterans may gripe about the Fighter having no option other than "I attack" but in my experience, 8 year olds playing D&D for the first time LOVE saying "I attack!" and see nothing wrong with it.

We also played Hero kids, which has even fewer options (spellcasting PCs literally have one spell) they were totally thrilled.