Punishing your players

[sniffles]

I've seen a lot of comments referring to punishing players for bad PC behavior. I was just having a conversation with one of my fellow players, in which he remarked that another GM he plays with would punish that group if they "charged into combat with no thought" the way our group does.

My immediate response was that it is never right for the GM to punish players for doing what they think their characters would do. If it's not out of character, and the player isn't just doing it to be annoying or because he doesn't care, then nothing a PC does is 'stupid'. If the player chooses a course of action that is ill-considered, the consequences of that action are likely to be 'punishment' enough.

What say you all?

 

[the Jester]

If the player chooses a course of action that is ill-considered, the consequences of that action are likely to be 'punishment' enough.

I think that's often what people mean when they are talking about 'punishing' players. I could be wrong, however.

 

[diaglo]

I think that's often what people mean when they are talking about 'punishing' players. I could be wrong, however.

quoted for truth

 

[Ourph]

I don't think of it as punishment. I think of it as making them pay "Stupid Tax". But that's just semantics.

 

[Hjorimir]

I will add another voice to the only form of punishment my players get are the circumstances of thier actions. I have no vendetta against them. Ever.

Then again, I have my players paranoid enough that they always act with caution.

 

[TerraDave]

As a twist on this, is it right to punish the charecter for what is really an issue with the player (like not bringing sufficient snaks to sacrifice to the DM, or something worse, perhaps much worse). Or in a borderline case: yes, it is in charecter, no, no one was really hurt, but boy, is it getting anoying...

The answer is probably "no", but sometimes with those pesky players, you wonder...

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

As a twist on this, is it right to punish the charecter for what is really an issue with the player (like not bringing sufficient snaks to sacrifice to the DM, or something worse, perhaps much worse). Or in a borderline case: yes, it is in charecter, no, no one was really hurt, but boy, is it getting anoying...

The answer is probably "no", but sometimes with those pesky players, you wonder...

I would say this is about the worst thing a DM can do. You shouldn't be inflicting in-game punishment on characters for out-of-game issues. Deal with the issues out-of-game as well, you'll get a much better response.

Of course the opposite (the original question) is just as bad. Punishing the players out-of-game for in-game behavior also does not make sense and will just lead to animosity between the players and the DM. If the "punishment" is the DM unleashing a can of hurt on the PCs, that is not punishing the players, that's punishing the characters and is perfectly OK in my mind.

 

[Umbran]

If it's not out of character, and the player isn't just doing it to be annoying or because he doesn't care, then nothing a PC does is 'stupid'.

What, have you never done something that is entirely in-character for you, in real life, but not then thought the act was "stupid"? Being "in character" has no bearing upon whether the action is a dumb thing to do.

If the player chooses a course of action that is ill-considered, the consequences of that action are likely to be 'punishment' enough.

As others have said, holding the PCs to the consequences of their actiosn is typically what "punishment" refers to. Some players get this idea that, since they're the focus of the story, they can do dumb things without consequence. Many DMs feel otherwise.

 

[Henry]

Other than all actions having consequences, I don't "punish" my players or their characters. If a 2nd level character, by himself, leaves the party and attacks a nonthreatening Umber Hulk "for the experience" , then they get what they bargained for -- a full-on Umber Hulk defending itself by ripping him limb from limb. (I've actually had this happen in one game!)

For OOC punishment, I don't believe in it, and it's childish no matter how you slice it.

Is this what you meant, or something else I'm not grasping?

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

Aside from the Cattle Prod when they role a Nat 1 on a save vs an electrical effect,

I never punish players for doing stupid things.

Those monsters they are perpetrating their stupid actions upon, however, shall do all the punishment that shall ever need to be done.

More like "Getting what you asked for" than punishment.

I mean, after the Dire, Fiendish Chinchilla Monks of Vecna killed the entire party, how can you possibly punish them further?