Purple Dragon Knight Retooled as Banneret in D&D's Heroes of Faerun Book

The much-maligned Purple Dragon Knight Fighter subclass is being retooled towards its original support origins in the upcoming Heroes of Faerun book. Coming out of GenCon, an image of a premade character sheet of a Banneret is making its way around the Internet. The classic support-based Fighter subclass appears to have replaced the Purple Dragon Knight subclass, which received a ton of criticism for not resembling the Purple Dragon Knight's traditional lore.

The Banneret's abilities includes a Level 3 "Knightly Envoy" ability that allows it to cast Comprehend Language as a ritual and gain proficiency in either Intimidation, Insight, Performance, or Persuasion (this appears unchanged from the Purple Dragon Knight UA), plus a Group Recovery ability that allows those within 30 feet of the Banneret to regain 1d4 Hit Points plus the Banneret's Fighter Level when the Banneret uses its Second Wind ability. Scrapped is the Purple Dragon companion that the UA version of the subclass had, which grew in power as the Purple Dragon Knight leveled up.

The Banneret was the generic name for the Purple Dragon Knight in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. The Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight was originally more of a support class that could provide the benefits of its abilities to its allies instead of or in addition to benefitting from them directly. For instance, a Banneret's Action Surge could be used to allow a nearby ally to make an attack, and Indomitable could allow an ally to reroll a failed saving throw in addition to the Banneret.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Yup. Just like the zhentarium and red wizards are always scheming villains who are kill on sight. Imagine if they tried to make Zhents a mercenary army or the red wizards magic merchants. That would go against decades of established lore. Next you'll tell me there are non evil drow or spellcasting dwarves!

I assume this is some sort of sarcasm, but I do not know or care about the old or new FR lore enough to quite understand it...

 

[pukunui]

For the record, the Purple Dragons are the national army of Cormyr, with the Purple Dragon Knights being the officers.

They got their name from Thauglor, an ancient black dragon whose scales were more violet than black. Thauglor once ruled over the area that became Cormyr.

While the amethyst dragon-riding subclass may have been killed, my guess is that the lore about the PDKs expanding to become a Faerûn-wide organisation is still a thing since they’re now one of the main factions.

 

[Weiley31]

I think Purple Dragon Knights works more as a Faction than a subclass to be quite honest. I also don't mind the idea of the the Purple Dragon Knights recruiting the Amethyst Dragons as a counter to Gith and their Red Dragons.

An arms race can include Dragons as part of the equation as well.

 

[Necropolitan]

Yup. Just like the zhentarium and red wizards are always scheming villains who are kill on sight. Imagine if they tried to make Zhents a mercenary army or the red wizards magic merchants. That would go against decades of established lore. Next you'll tell me there are non evil drow or spellcasting dwarves!

The Zhentarim were already involved in mercantile concerns decades ago and even if they hadn't been it was a reasonable evolution of the setting as opposed to having a group of knights famous for killing a dragon suddenly be bonding with them.

So you're factually wrong and even if you weren't factually wrong you'd still be comparing apples and eggs.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I think Purple Dragon Knights works more as a Faction than a subclass to be quite honest. I also don't mind the idea of the the Purple Dragon Knights recruiting the Amethyst Dragons as a counter to Gith and their Red Dragons.

An arms race can include Dragons as part of the equation as well.

We've got to close this dragon gap!

 

[doctorhook]

I don’t find the existing lore boring, I just don’t know the existing lore. And don’t really care to, because Forgotten Realms is too massive and bloated to be accessible even if I was interested in it as a setting.

It’s pretty wild to use your own ignorance and apathy about a franchise to justify why you think it should change to be more “cool”. I’ve never been interested in Downton Abbey but I’d never suggest to its fans that it would be a lot cooler with spaceships and bikini-babes on motorcycles.

I understand that the purple dragon knights have never been dragon riders in the lore, but the thing about setting lore is that it can, and should, evolve. Just because they have never ridden purple dragons in the past doesn’t mean there couldn’t be some new novel or adventure module in which the events lead to the purple dragon nights starting to actually ride purple dragons.

You’re totally right, Downton Abbey should definitely have some bikini-babes on motorcycles and probably some cyborg-ninja-zombies in the next series, because the thing about setting lore is that it can, and should, evolve.

Just because Downton Abbey didn’t have starships and samurais in the past doesn’t mean there couldn’t be some new season or movie in which the events lead to the abbey being nuked by cyborg-ninja-zombies.

They’d probably use their starships to physically tractor-beam the abbey to downtown London so that the name isn’t confusing to new viewers who were bored until we added the cool new bikini-babes on motorcycles.

This refusal to accept anything new in old settings is what that still active “the conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting” thread is about. Stodgy grognards too dedicated to these settings as they were decades ago, and throwing a fit every time moves are made towards allowing the settings to evolve from that point.

I mean, instead of insulting people who liked a setting the way the it was, you could acknowledge that maybe WotC should just make some new settings instead of bastardizing existing ones into the ground.

The existing lore doesn’t have to change for purple dragon knights to start riding purple dragons in the current era of the realms. Indeed, the art that has been shown makes it look like that’s happening anyway, so all this complaining about “muh lore” has accomplished is making a subclass more mechanically generic. The lore is still evolving in the same direction.

I truly don’t care if you think the banneret is “too boring” for you. Why does every element of a well-established setting need to be tweaked to impress you? It was worth blowing up that playtest just to preserve an aspect of FR.

Purple dragon aren't even the same thing as amethyst dragons in FR anyway, btw.

 

[Charlaquin]

The Zhentarim were already involved in mercantile concerns decades ago and even if they hadn't been it was a reasonable evolution of the setting as opposed to having a group of knights famous for killing a dragon suddenly be bonding with them.

Because D&D dragons all famously share the same temperament and moral alignment. No one who would fight one kind of dragon could ever possibly hope to ally with some other kind of Dragon in D&D, no sir!

 

[Necropolitan]

Because D&D dragons all famously share the same temperament and moral alignment. No one who would fight one kind of dragon could ever possibly hope to ally with some other kind of Dragon in D&D, no sir!

That's a strawman argument.

The Purple Dragon Knights were a specific order of knights named for having slain a specific dragon with purple scales.

The UA changed it so they were a group of knights who bonded with dragons with the previous lore entirely removed.

 

[GarrettKP]

That's a strawman argument.

The Purple Dragon Knights were a specific order of knights named for having slain a specific dragon with purple scales.

The UA changed it so they were a group of knights who bonded with dragons with the previous lore entirely removed.

That isn’t exactly true. Nothing about the UA suggested the old lore was removed, only that their current status in the realm has changed. And there’s art at GenCon showing the Purple Dragons riding an Amethyst Dragon. It’s very likely that part of the lore update was not actually changed.

 

[Charlaquin]

It’s pretty wild to use your own ignorance and apathy about a franchise to justify why you think it should change to be more “cool”. I’ve never been interested in Downton Abbey but I’d never suggest to its fans that it would be a lot cooler with spaceships and bikini-babes on motorcycles.

I mean, if Downton Abbey was called “the bikini babe spaceship and motorcycle variety hour,” I think people would be pretty justified in expecting it to feature those things.

You’re totally right, Downton Abbey should definitely have some bikini-babes on motorcycles and probably some cyborg-ninja-zombies in the next series, because the thing about setting lore is that it can, and should, evolve.

Just because Downton Abbey didn’t have starships and samurais in the past doesn’t mean there couldn’t be some new season or movie in which the events lead to the abbey being nuked by cyborg-ninja-zombies.

Well dragons, and people who ride them, are things that exist in Forgotten Realms. Starships and cyborg ninja zombies are not things that exist in 1910s London. So, while it is theoretically possible for the story to take a turn in that direction (it is fiction, after all) it would be a dramatic departure in tone, themes, and even genre. Shifting gears to focus on biker women would be a less dramatic turn, but still significantly more dramatic than a group of knights allying with a group of dragons and learning to ride them in D&D.

They’d probably use their starships to physically tractor-beam the abbey to downtown London so that the name isn’t confusing to new viewers who were bored until we added the cool new bikini-babes on motorcycles.

The analogy has gotten away from you. The name being misleading is the initial impetus for the change. Again, if Downton Abbey had been called “Sexy bike riding cyborg-ninja-zombie adventures in space,” it being a romantic drama in Edwardian London would have been a weird choice in the first place.

I mean, instead of insulting people who liked a setting the way the it was, you could acknowledge that maybe WotC should just make some new settings instead of bastardizing existing ones into the ground.

New and interesting things happening in a setting is not bastardizing it. You may not like the new direction, but it’s pretty extreme to act like new developments are automatically disrespecting previous lore.

I truly don’t care if you think the banneret is “too boring” for you. Why does every element of a well-established setting need to be tweaked to impress you?

It doesn’t. I’m just one person sharing my opinion. I don’t seem to be alone in that opinion.

It was worth blowing up that playtest just to preserve an aspect of FR.

From the look of the art, that aspect of FR isn’t being preserved anyway. Purple Dragon Knights riding amethyst dragons looks to be a thing that is going to be happening in the story regardless. It’s just that the subclass isn’t going to be mechanically tied to them any more.

Purple dragon aren't even the same thing as amethyst dragons in FR anyway, btw.

Purple dragons aren’t even a thing in FR, are they?