Purple Dragon Knight Retooled as Banneret in D&D's Heroes of Faerun Book

The much-maligned Purple Dragon Knight Fighter subclass is being retooled towards its original support origins in the upcoming Heroes of Faerun book. Coming out of GenCon, an image of a premade character sheet of a Banneret is making its way around the Internet. The classic support-based Fighter subclass appears to have replaced the Purple Dragon Knight subclass, which received a ton of criticism for not resembling the Purple Dragon Knight's traditional lore.

The Banneret's abilities includes a Level 3 "Knightly Envoy" ability that allows it to cast Comprehend Language as a ritual and gain proficiency in either Intimidation, Insight, Performance, or Persuasion (this appears unchanged from the Purple Dragon Knight UA), plus a Group Recovery ability that allows those within 30 feet of the Banneret to regain 1d4 Hit Points plus the Banneret's Fighter Level when the Banneret uses its Second Wind ability. Scrapped is the Purple Dragon companion that the UA version of the subclass had, which grew in power as the Purple Dragon Knight leveled up.

The Banneret was the generic name for the Purple Dragon Knight in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. The Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight was originally more of a support class that could provide the benefits of its abilities to its allies instead of or in addition to benefitting from them directly. For instance, a Banneret's Action Surge could be used to allow a nearby ally to make an attack, and Indomitable could allow an ally to reroll a failed saving throw in addition to the Banneret.

 

[Charlaquin]

That's a strawman argument.

The Purple Dragon Knights were a specific order of knights named for having slain a specific dragon with purple scales.

The UA changed it so they were a group of knights who bonded with dragons with the previous lore entirely removed.

No, the UA introduced the idea that, by [current year in FR calendar], the purple dragon knights allied with amethyst dragons and now ride them. Nothing said the previous lore for them was being replaced, it was a new thing that happened, more recently than them slaying said black dragon.

 

[Charlaquin]

That isn’t exactly true. Nothing about the UA suggested the old lore was removed, only that their current status in the realm has changed. And there’s art at GenCon showing the Purple Dragons riding an Amethyst Dragon. It’s very likely that part of the lore update was not actually changed.

Say it louder for the people in the back

 

[Amphytrion]

People who know the lore explained it in this thread. I did not know it and have no personal attachment to it.

Still, it’s perfectly reasonable to my eyes that FR fans would like the class in the FR-book to build off FR lore. I don’t understand why others are so against this elementary principle.

If you did not care about Purple Dragon Knights before, nothing’s changed. You can still not care about them and life goes on unimpeded.

I am certain that, in a game called Dungeons and Dragons, we’ll get the dragon-riding fighter in another book, it’s only a question of time. If you don’t want to wait, there are many 3rd party products that include dragon-themed subclasses.

 

[Necropolitan]

I mean, if Downton Abbey was called “the bikini babe spaceship and motorcycle variety hour,” I think people would be pretty justified in expecting it to feature those things.

The Swashbuckler doesn't go stand outside the homes of people they want to challenge and rub their buckler to signal that the person inside is a coward afraid to face them, Rogues can be loyal despite their name implying they'd be rogue, and packing peanuts aren't food.

No, the UA introduced the idea that, by [current year in FR calendar], the purple dragon knights allied with amethyst dragons and now ride them. Nothing said the previous lore for them was being replaced, it was a new thing that happened, more recently than them slaying said black dragon.

The entire function of what Purple Dragon Knights do was changed, nothing there goes against what I said.

People who know the lore explained it in this thread. I did not know it and have no personal attachment to it.

Still, it’s perfectly reasonable to my eyes that FR fans would like the class in the FR-book to build off FR lore. I don’t understand why others are so against this elementary principle.

If you did not care about Purple Dragon Knights before, nothing’s changed. You can still not care about them and life goes on unimpeded.

I am certain that, in a game called Dungeons and Dragons, we’ll get the dragon-riding fighter in another book, it’s only a question of time. If you don’t want to wait, there are many 3rd party products that include dragon-themed subclasses.

Yeah, there was no reason to change Purple Dragon Knights when WOTC could have just made a different subclass called "Draconic Warriors."

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

No, the UA introduced the idea that, by [current year in FR calendar], the purple dragon knights allied with amethyst dragons and now ride them. Nothing said the previous lore for them was being replaced, it was a new thing that happened, more recently than them slaying said black dragon.

I think one thing that we are all overlooking is the fact that like purple dragons or amethyst dragons are not that numerous in the D&D setting.

They're also like... One of the weirder creatures of d&d: crystalline psychic dragons obsessed with the outer planes.

Why would they have any affinity with a lawful good organization of medieval knights? Frankly, an army dedicated to a single nation and it's mortal laws would be one of the most BORING things to an amethyst dragons imaginable.

"The metal dragon knights" would be a far better and more fitting evolution of the concept.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think one thing that we are all overlooking is the fact that like purple dragons or amethyst dragons are not that numerous in the D&D setting.

They're also like... One of the weirder creatures of d&d: crystalline psychic dragons obsessed with the outer planes.

Why would they have any affinity with a lawful good organization of medieval knights? Frankly, an army dedicated to a single nation and it's mortal laws would be one of the most BORING things to an amethyst dragons imaginable.

"The metal dragon knights" would be a far better and more fitting evolution of the concept.

If there was some "dragon warrior" subclass that was about befriending a dragon, then don't make it about one specific type of dragon, that is bizarrely narrow. The subclass can have some minor customisation within itself, so that it can represent alliance with the dragon type of the player's choosing.

 

[Necropolitan]

If there was some "dragon warrior" subclass that was about befriending a dragon, then don't make it about one specific type of dragon, that is bizarrely narrow. The subclass can have some minor customisation within itself, so that it can represent alliance with the dragon type of the player's choosing.

100%.

If you make it so it can be any type of dragon that allows it to cover everything from Githyanki Red Dragon riders to Zhentarim Skymages to holy warriors of Bahamut to the world's happiest kobold who's befriended a dragon and is now living their best life.

 

[ECMO3]

Hallelujah! It’s encouraging to hear that WotC actually responds to criticism about butchering their own lore. A Purple Dragon Knight with a literal dragon pet makes as much sense as a Fighter with a fighter jet.

This is the best explanation I have seen on this.

A Dragon riding fighter subclass would be cool. Using the Purple Dragon Knight for that subclass is stupid.

 

[ECMO3]

Very sad. Rabid fanbois with a canon fetish turn an interesting subclass into something as boring as F.

We are talking about a subclass specifically for the Forgotten Realms coming out in a Forgotten Realms themed book. IMO that makes the Lore pretty important.

I don't think anyone had a problem with a cool Dragon riding subclass and you could even do that in the Forgotten Realms by tying it to some Gith-themed class. But it is just way wrong for a Purple Dragon Knight.

I think any mount for a PDK is not in line with the lore, but if the PDKs must get have flying mounts, those mounts should be hippogriffs, not Dragons, and certainly not Amethyst Dragons which are unheard of in the Forgtten Realms. I can't think of any literature with an Amethyst Dragon. Even the Purple Dragon himself was actually a Black Dragon.

 

[mellored]

Personally I would like to see options to encourage both like in 4e. Adding half int bonus rounded up to initiative and persuasion might discourage total stat dumping. Adding Charisma to second wind healing might be an alternative.

I think there needs to be more reason for non wizards not to dump intelligence in 5e generally.

There are already a few different Int based fighter subclasses. Having a single Cha based one is fine.

Also, need a good bit more than a heal to be a true warlord.