Pyrohydra

[KarinsDad]

Aside from the perceived unbalance in the other interpretations, keep in mind that your choice is identical to normal combat reflexes, as if nothing were printed in the hydra description.

True.

So, the question becomes, does the text in the Hydra description give us additional information that normal Combat Reflexes does not?

A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity.

This does not state:

A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use any of its heads for attacks of opportunity.


Since the sentence is there, one has to ask why. Does the word all mean "every head every round", or "any head every round, but still limited to two".

We do have another clue:

Hydras can attack with all their heads at no penalty, even if they move or charge during the round.

When combined with the other quote, this could indicate that the hydra gets 2 AoO per head.

The designer intent appears to be that the heads are "individual creatures" in some ways.

Bottom line: Either interpretation can be made. I lean towards 12 max AoOs just because the sentence is there and the designers did allow each head to attack after a move action.

This also makes the Hydra a nasty creature in melee which is also what I think the designers intended.

 

[Felix]

Here is a 9 header...

Sweet.

No, the way i was reading it would be 6 AoO's. Each head can be used for an AoO.

So what's the function of Combat Reflexes? To make this look plausable?

 

[frankthedm]

So what's the function of Combat Reflexes? To make this look plausable?

Hydra have a synergy with Combat reflexes. A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity. To me this means their headcount is their AoO count. Even if thier Dex gets nuked, their AoO count is thier head count if higher than their dex score. If for some horrible reason a hydra lost it's combat reflexes feat, the poor thing would be down to 1 AoO per round.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Which is why I said it is in how you roll it and not in the number crunching. From a purely mathematical viewpoint there's no real difference between the numbers for (10d6)/2 and 5d6. Game-wise and rules-wise, i.e., how you roll it, it is important. The rules state you take half the damage, which would be (10d6)/2, and not 5d6, which would require another roll.

Can I be picky

From a purely mathematical viewpoint there absolutely IS a difference between the numbers for (10d6)/2 and 5d6... when you roll fewer dice you are more likely to get numbers at the extreme ends. For instance, the probability of doing maximum (30) damage in the second instance is 1 in 7776, while the probability of doing 30 damage with (10d6/2) is 1 in 60,466,176!

Cheers

 

[Infiniti2000]

So, the question becomes, does the text in the Hydra description give us additional information that normal Combat Reflexes does not?

Absolutely. My argument is that the hydra description doesn't rewrite CR, so both CR and the hydra description must make sense together. The hydra therefore gets 2 opportunities per round and as you point out with the second clue, each opportunity can use all of its heads. So, a 5-headed hydra would be able to take 2 AoO's per round, using all 5 heads each time. If it were cut down to 3 heads, then it would still take 2 AoO's per round using all 3 heads each time.

Note that this also has consistent with non-biting AoO's whereas the other interpretations don't. If the hydra wanted to trip as an AoO, it could still take 2 AoO's per round (two trips, or one trip and one with all heads biting). Under the 1 AoO per head ruling, this no longer makes sense because the bite cannot be used to trip (or disarm, etc.).

 

[glass]

lukelightning (sorry if I seem to be picking on you) agrees that it's not, since he mentions that you still take AoO when flat-footed.

When I said 'instead', I was talking about the number of AoO (I had forgotten about Combat Reflexes' other benefits, to be honest). With that said...

Can it really be instead?

Well it seems odd if it is 'instead', but OTOH if it isn't then what exactly does it have to do with the Combat Reflexes feat? Why not just say 'The hydra can...' and not mention the feat at all?


glass.

 

[sjmiller]

Can I be picky

Sure, not a problem. I did not want to get into the complexities of the situation, nor the exact probabilities. We were just discussing the highs, lows, and averages. The probability of actually GETTING those highs and lows are a whole different message thread.

 

[Nail]

Some contortion, though it is not an unreasonable way to work it, though giving each hydra head a 10'x10'x20' jet gives lots of coverage but makes the breaths wimpy against fire resist. It is probably the safest way to work the breath since 15d6 fire is way to much to be expected to cope with at 6th level. Here is a 9 header...

Sweet diagram, frankthedm.

IMO, AoOs that involve all the heads (all heads attack on one AoO) is consistent with the hydra's CR. Each head getting a jet of fire (or cold) that does 3d6 damage is also consistent with the pyro-(cryo-)hydra's CR.

 

[glass]

The different interpretations I'm aware of are:

1. Each head gets 2 AoO/round and may take them independently or simultaneously at their discretion. ("each head is a monster with Combat reflexes")

2. The creature gets 2AoO/round with all heads attacking ("all heads attack on an AoO")

3. The creature gets a total of 2 AoO/round but any available head can be used to make the AoO. ("heads are weapons")

Intersting that only one of your three is common with my list of three a few posts back. Seems like there are a lot of ways to interpret this.


glass.

 

[glass]

Another way of looking at it:

According to the 'Attack:' line, a hydra can bite with all his heads on an attack. Since you can do anything on an AoO that you can do as an attack, for the hydra that includes biting with all the heads.

The bizare text re combat reflexes can be ignored completely.


glass.